Game 12 Tigers vs. indians April 10, 2019

[tomdalton22]

The great Al Kaline failed to have a SLG % above .500 past the age of 32. The same age he last topped .300 BAVG for a FULL season.

Even Alan Trammell struggled to stay off the injury list and produce like he did after turning 32.

I don't remember any Tiger fan trashing these HoF players when they were in the twilight of their careers. The ignorance expressed by some is purely based on disdained well expressed before the last 2 years. It just has been constant since 2017.

There weren't message boards and social media when Kaline and Tram were in the twilight of their careers, so you probably wouldn't hear a wide variety of opinions on the matter.

It's also what he is getting paid and how he and his contract hamstring the team compared to years past. In the twilight of Tram's career he made $3m (1994 age 36) which was 6% of the team payroll. Miggy accounts for 26% of the team payroll.

 

[Mitchrapp]

Didn't make the same money even in those era's they weren't making comparative money. And they didn't get a 10 year deals.

 

[kalinecountry]

Just like every other thread here and the Lions board, I read everything.
I had to respond in kind to the Miggy thread reference and the Kaline reference.

If we had the internet back when Kaline was winding down his great all-around career I would have started a thread for Kaline's all time great career numbers tracker like Tigermud started for Miggy.
We didn't, so I started cutting out pieces from the newspapers here and added those to my Kaline collection.
It mattered if they won or lost and then it didn't when the teams were mediocre or bad through his career, I followed Big Al and the other players positional and pitchers, and hoped they had good days/weeks/months.
If the team was bad/sucked, I was bitter, and cynical, but still rooted for the players, especially Kaline, to do well.

Right now and for the past couple of years, I love the Tigers, but hate them losing too. I cannot stand the front office and some coaches, but am glad they finally got their collective heads out of their asses and started an Analytics dept.
I still do not trust or have faith in Chris Ilitch and Al Avila, and hope to be proved wrong by them.
I will still root for the players, great like Miggy, Good like Nick, and the rest of the players, and look forward to Miggy passing other all-time greats as he winds down his career and look forward to his passing other players in the Miggy career numbers tracker.

I think a few of us here are upset Miggy makes so much money compared to what he is producing now and the last two years.
Mr. Ilitch offered him the early extension right or wrong, in all likelihood wrong. Mr. I was a businessman, But he was also a fan. He didn't give a flying F about losing millions when he was a Billionaire 7 times over. Look at it this way, if any of us were in Miggy's shoes, would you or I turn down his last contract extension of the $30 or so Million a year? That's what I thought...

 

[tomdalton22]

Just like every other thread here and the Lions board, I read everything.
I had to respond in kind to the Miggy thread reference and the Kaline reference.

If we had the internet back when Kaline was winding down his great all-around career I would have started a thread for Kaline's all time great career numbers tracker like Tigermud started for Miggy.
We didn't, so I started cutting out pieces from the newspapers here and added those to my Kaline collection.
It mattered if they won or lost and then it didn't when the teams were mediocre or bad through his career, I followed Big Al and the other players positional and pitchers, and hoped they had good days/weeks/months.
If the team was bad/sucked, I was bitter, and cynical, but still rooted for the players, especially Kaline, to do well.

Right now and for the past couple of years, I love the Tigers, but hate them losing too. I cannot stand the front office and some coaches, but am glad they finally got their collective heads out of their asses and started an Analytics dept.
I still do not trust or have faith in Chris Ilitch and Al Avila, and hope to be proved wrong by them.
I will still root for the players, great like Miggy, Good like Nick, and the rest of the players, and look forward to Miggy passing other all-time greats as he winds down his career and look forward to his passing other players in the Miggy career numbers tracker.

I think a few of us here are upset Miggy makes so much money compared to what he is producing now and the last two years.
Mr. Ilitch offered him the early extension right or wrong, in all likelihood wrong. Mr. I was a businessman, But he was also a fan. He didn't give a flying F about losing millions when he was a Billionaire 7 times over. Look at it this way, if any of us were in Miggy's shoes, would you or I turn down his last contract extension of the $30 or so Million a year? That's what I thought...

I appreciate and respect your point of view. I just have a different opinion. I am a huge Detroit Tigers fan but not a huge fan of individual players. I have never purchased a jersey or t shirt with an individual player name or number on it. While I really enjoyed watching individual Tiger players have success, the success of the team has always been my concern. Good or bad, I will always follow the team. Don't get me wrong...I get caught up in the moment when players are having great years or individual games just like every fan...it's fun and exciting rooting for a HR record, a Cy Young push, MVP race, no-hitter, etc...it's entertaining.

As far as Miggy's salary...I don't have any problem with him whatsoever for taking that $$$. I would have called him a fool if he didn't!

 

[gotime909]

There weren't message boards and social media when Kaline and Tram were in the twilight of their careers, so you probably wouldn't hear a wide variety of opinions on the matter.

It's also what he is getting paid and how he and his contract hamstring the team compared to years past. In the twilight of Tram's career he made $3m (1994 age 36) which was 6% of the team payroll. Miggy accounts for 26% of the team payroll.

I pretty much agree with this. I remember Magglio being shit on pretty regularly here his last year. Even got the nickname Singlio

 

[biggunsbob]

so you want every Tigers pitcher to just waste a pitch every time they get an 0-2 count? That's stupid.

Not sure if you have watched baseball ball before but a 0-2 waste pitch is as old as baseball is.
It is called getting the batter to Fish at your pitch or whatever you want to call it. My philosophy is not to have that waste pitch hit much of the plate. We can agree to disagree, and it’s not stupid to give into the batter.

 

[tomdalton22]

Not sure if you have watched baseball ball before but a 0-2 waste pitch is as old as baseball is.
It is called getting the batter to Fish at your pitch or whatever you want to call it. My philosophy is not to have that waste pitch hit much of the plate. We can agree to disagree, and it?s not stupid to give into the batter.

maybe you missed the words "every time" in my quote.

I'm all for not throwing a strike...but not a "waste pitch" every time.

 

[Mitchrapp]

Not sure if you have watched baseball ball before but a 0-2 waste pitch is as old as baseball is.
It is called getting the batter to Fish at your pitch or whatever you want to call it. My philosophy is not to have that waste pitch hit much of the plate. We can agree to disagree, and it?s not stupid to give into the batter.

I think Tom meant "not every time." Eventually batters catch on and know the 3rd pitch will be out of the strike zone. Not sure what the sweet spot is on that kind of thing.



To clarify I'm a big Miggy fan but it got in my crawl when he said last season that basically he's playing only for himself. Or when he's good and ready. Like it was the fans fault he came back to early and got hurt.

 

[Rebbiv]

There weren't message boards and social media when Kaline and Tram were in the twilight of their careers, so you probably wouldn't hear a wide variety of opinions on the matter.

It's also what he is getting paid and how he and his contract hamstring the team compared to years past. In the twilight of Tram's career he made $3m (1994 age 36) which was 6% of the team payroll. Miggy accounts for 26% of the team payroll.

You recently said you didn't blame Miggy for his contract, now you do. What's up with that?


And we should just signed Miggy to $3 Mil contract and should pay no more than $3 Mil a year on any player and never more than one year at a time. Would that help you be a fan of a player?


And at this point in the season, unless you have a magic crystal ball, you have no clue how Miggy will finish the season. For that matter, his career. You are speculating on 2 injury seasons.

 

[tomdalton22]

You recently said you didn't blame Miggy for his contract, now you do. What's up with that?


And we should just signed Miggy to $3 Mil contract and should pay no more than $3 Mil a year on any player and never more than one year at a time. Would that help you be a fan of a player?


And at this point in the season, unless you have a magic crystal ball, you have no clue how Miggy will finish the season. For that matter, his career. You are speculating on 2 injury seasons.

I clearly don't blame Miggy for the contract..I blame the Tigers for offering it

As far as Miggy's salary...I don't have any problem with him whatsoever for taking that $$$. I would have called him a fool if he didn't!

 

[kalinecountry]

To clarify I'm a big Miggy fan but it got in my crawl when he said last season that basically he's playing only for himself. Or when he's good and ready. Like it was the fans fault he came back to early and got hurt.

I remember Miggy saying that last year regarding '17 and '18 and thought it had something to do with the front office wanting him to come back before he was 100%, he did and was worse for it.
We can only speculate.

 

[Rebbiv]

I clearly don't blame Miggy for the contract..I blame the Tigers for offering it

You are still contradicting yourself. It isn't his fault the Tigers are in there position, none at all.



Miggy is a HoF player who has had his best seasons as a Tiger. He played hurt and it got him no where. His recent two years are a result of playing hurt, not a result of decline. I am certainly not going to judge him based on 50 PAs in 2019, I will wait to the season end.


Joe Mauer


Buster Posey


Derek Jeter


Joey Votto

 

[tomdalton22]

You are still contradicting yourself. It isn't his fault the Tigers are in there position, none at all.



Miggy is a HoF player who has had his best seasons as a Tiger. He played hurt and it got him no where. His recent two years are a result of playing hurt, not a result of decline. I am certainly not going to judge him based on 50 PAs in 2019, I will wait to the season end.


Joe Mauer


Buster Posey


Derek Jeter


Joey Votto

I'm not contradicting myself. Both can be true. I don't blame Miggy for signing that contract and I can still wish they never offered it to him. In my perfect world the Tigers wouldn't have offered a contract and he would have left when he hit free agency after the 2015 season.

 

[Mitchrapp]

You are still contradicting yourself. It isn't his fault the Tigers are in there position, none at all.



Miggy is a HoF player who has had his best seasons as a Tiger. He played hurt and it got him no where. His recent two years are a result of playing hurt, not a result of decline. I am certainly not going to judge him based on 50 PAs in 2019, I will wait to the season end.


Joe Mauer


Buster Posey


Derek Jeter


Joey Votto

Long term deals like this never work. EVER. I get why they did it but maybe teams need to follow the Cardinals lead.. And I wanted Miggy here for his career but 30m x 8 years is way too much. These days are moving to 400m plus.



And it's not 50PA but 2 years and 50PA.

 

[Rebbiv]

Long term deals like this never work. EVER. I get why they did it but maybe teams need to follow the Cardinals lead.. And I wanted Miggy here for his career but 30m x 8 years is way too much. These days are moving to 400m plus.



And it's not 50PA but 2 years and 50PA.

Mitch, given all things, I would rather Miggy end his career as a Tiger. Was the deal too much? In hindsight, it was a bad deal. But it still does not detract from the player himself. Blaming a player for taking the money is absurd.



And you are still ignoring the last two years were injury plagued and that anything, absolutely anything can happen the rest of the year to prove me right, or prove you right.