2021 Free Agency and Cap Cuts

[mhughes0021]

Agree. There is more than one way to build a good team but game changers are what is needed

I'd argue Tavai lost in coverage changes the game for the Lions quite a bit.

Can Hock become a Kittle, can Swift become a Kamara can Okudah be a shut down all pro corner. But the Lions need al lthat and more with these next few drafts. I know Flowers, Okwara and Brockers can all be good players. Collins too. Hand when healthy, big if. Keeping adding good at least

Good coaching can mask lack of game changers if you have enough good/solid players though.

Lets stop assuming the coaching will be improved. First time HC, first time OC and first time DC. They could completely suck at their jobs...we have no idea. The assumption is DCampbell and Glenn will be hungry to prove themselves. But the fact of the matter is Glenn doesnt really have a scheme and he definitely doesnt have the personnel.

 

[LKP]

Lets stop assuming the coaching will be improved. First time HC, first time OC and first time DC. They could completely suck at their jobs...we have no idea. The assumption is DCampbell and Glenn will be hungry to prove themselves. But the fact of the matter is Glenn doesnt really have a scheme and he definitely doesnt have the personnel.

Campbell has HC experience. Lynn HC and OC experience. Glenn is new but has plenty of support with good position coaches plus Capers. Position coach changes are very experienced and have played at NFL level. Brunell, Staley, Fraley and Randle El. Wash was a DC now Dline coach. Two good LB coach adds and Pleasant at DB. That is a good staff.

We'll see what the coaching can do. Not a slam dunk better but lowest of bars. It has potential to be good.

And Lions can still add I'd say 4 really talented players that could contribute right away. And they do have some talent in spots.

We know 2021 won't be a good year but it's a step in the right direction. 2021 plus 2022 additions plus the good they have and keep can turn it around. Plus any day 3 adds would be icing on the cake. What if they pull a Seattle and get Sherman and Chancellor types on day 3

 

[Mitchrapp]

first, stop calling it a re-build. That term implies that the team was good at some time in the past :tup:

This regime is starting from scratch. There is virtually no high end talent on this team. When I say high end talent, I mean "game changing" talent...all pro type players. Pick 3 last year should have produced a player like that. Pick 7 this year should produce a player like that. Their top 5 pick next year should produce a player like that. It really doesn't matter what position...if the player is a game changer, it will be a good pick. WR, DB, DL, LB, OL, or QB...the Lions need a game changer at all of those positions.

Regardless rebuild - starting from scratch - expansion a WR isn't needed. Build the stupid defense for once. Game changers on offense did wonders for us when we had Calvin, and Barry, and Moore, and Staff etc.. No wait. Every year we fail, which is every year, it's always the defense, it's their fault; "Staff would win more if we had a better defense" and yet here we are wanting a WR. And the excuse 'Oh we can fix the D later because it's a 5 year rebuild." How is that working out for us.

 

[mhughes0021]

Campbell has HC experience. Lynn HC and OC experience. Glenn is new but has plenty of support with good position coaches plus Capers. Position coach changes are very experienced and have played at NFL level. Brunell, Staley, Fraley and Randle El. Wash was a DC now Dline coach. Two good LB coach adds and Pleasant at DB. That is a good staff.

We'll see what the coaching can do. Not a slam dunk better but lowest of bars. It has potential to be good.

And Lions can still add I'd say 4 really talented players that could contribute right away. And they do have some talent in spots.

We know 2021 won't be a good year but it's a step in the right direction. 2021 plus 2022 additions plus the good they have and keep can turn it around. Plus any day 3 adds would be icing on the cake. What if they pull a Seattle and get Sherman and Chancellor types on day 3

We're projected to be at the bottom of the league. Several 2022 mocks i see have us picking #1. Saying things like "its a step in the right direction"....well ya...theres no other direction to go when youre the worst lol. Bottom line is wins and losses. Winning less than 5 games is NOT a step in the right direction....no matter how you look at it. We'll see if they can exceed expectations.

 

[LKP]

We're projected to be at the bottom of the league. Several 2022 mocks i see have us picking #1. Saying things like "its a step in the right direction"....well ya...theres no other direction to go when youre the worst lol. Bottom line is wins and losses. Winning less than 5 games is NOT a step in the right direction....no matter how you look at it. We'll see if they can exceed expectations.

You can add talent to help you in 2022/2023 and still win like 3-4 games in 2021. Tough schedule and those players will be rookies. Bigger contributions from them later years. So yes we can still be awful record wise but moving in the right direction by adding talent right now. Those 4-5 guys could play well but others could play bad and cause losses (Goff, Collins, Anzalone, other DTs from Brockers, vet WRs on one year deals, right side of Oline, Walker/Harris/AO, Okwara regression), hopefully not Okudah). We will see who improves, who adds new value, who gets worse and how the coaching is (and if coaching learns from their mistakes unlike Patricia did).

 

[boogerlovejoy]

Regardless rebuild - starting from scratch - expansion a WR isn't needed. Build the stupid defense for once. Game changers on offense did wonders for us when we had Calvin, and Barry, and Moore, and Staff etc.. No wait. Every year we fail, which is every year, it's always the defense, it's their fault; "Staff would win more if we had a better defense" and yet here we are wanting a WR. And the excuse 'Oh we can fix the D later because it's a 5 year rebuild." How is that working out for us.

Mitch, what you're saying would be true if we never, recently or historically, put resources toward defense. We have.....a LOT. It's that they havent worked out AT ALL.

Lets look at the last 4 years......first 5 rounds.

2020
Round 1 - Okudah....early, but isn't looking good.
Round 3 - The shitty Okwara.....early, injured. We'll see. No impact so far.

2019
Round 2 - Tavai.....shitty. Might not make this or any roster this year.
Round 3 - Harris - shitty, no impact to this point.
Round 4 - Austin Bryant -Shitty. That is all
Round 5 - Oruwariye - Good for a 5th round pick. Solid depth corner with some upside.

2018
Round 3 - Tracy Walker - Some good, some bad. Solid round 3 pick. Hopefully new coaching will help him in 2021.
Round 4 - DeShawn Hand - Though LKP laps up his sack juice, he had a solid rookie year and has hardly been an impact since.

2017
Round 1 - Jarrad Davis - Athletic. That his entire plus side. Bad LB or bad coaching....cant tell.....either way.....he was BAD for us.
Round 2 - Teez Tabor - out of NFL after 2 years. Complete waste of a pick.
Round 4 - Reeves-Maybin......solid special teamer that has had little impact on D.
Round 5 - Jamal Agnew. Little defensive impact.....great KR/PR

So....2 1sts, 2 2nd's, 3 3rds, 3 4ths and 2 5ths on defense. That's 12 out of 23 picks in the first 5 rounds on defense.....here's the issue.... NOT ONE OF THEM HAS HAD A BIG IMPACT. Only AO, Walker and Hand have had even a decent impact.

It has nothing to do with ignoring the defense....its just that every time they've tried it was a massive failure.

Also....as far as Free Agents are concerned, almost every FA signing we had in the last 4 years was defensive. Collins, Harmon, Flowers, Harrison, Okwara, Jones, Kennard and Coleman. Our best offensive FA's have been Amendola, TJ Lang, Rick Wagner and Jesse James.....maybe Adrian Peterson.

I'd say that the last regime, Fatty and Quinn, spent MANY more resources, draft capital and FA money, on defense......by a wide margin. Your argument of ignoring the defense simply isn't true.

Take the BEST player available instead of just going defense "because we never do". If they feel the best player at 7 is Parsons, so be it, but I would take Waddle, Sewell or Chase over Parsons and be very happy. You don't bypass the BPA in 2021 just because Wayne Fontes liked drafting offensive players!

 

[mhughes0021]

Mitch, what you're saying would be true if we never, recently or historically, put resources toward defense. We have.....a LOT. It's that they havent worked out AT ALL.

Lets look at the last 4 years......first 5 rounds.

2020
Round 1 - Okudah....early, but isn't looking good.
Round 3 - The shitty Okwara.....early, injured. We'll see. No impact so far.

2019
Round 2 - Tavai.....shitty. Might not make this or any roster this year.
Round 3 - Harris - shitty, no impact to this point.
Round 4 - Austin Bryant -Shitty. That is all
Round 5 - Oruwariye - Good for a 5th round pick. Solid depth corner with some upside.

2018
Round 3 - Tracy Walker - Some good, some bad. Solid round 3 pick. Hopefully new coaching will help him in 2021.
Round 4 - DeShawn Hand - Though LKP laps up his sack juice, he had a solid rookie year and has hardly been an impact since.

2017
Round 1 - Jarrad Davis - Athletic. That his entire plus side. Bad LB or bad coaching....cant tell.....either way.....he was BAD for us.
Round 2 - Teez Tabor - out of NFL after 2 years. Complete waste of a pick.
Round 4 - Reeves-Maybin......solid special teamer that has had little impact on D.
Round 5 - Jamal Agnew. Little defensive impact.....great KR/PR

So....2 1sts, 2 2nd's, 3 3rds, 3 4ths and 2 5ths on defense. That's 12 out of 23 picks in the first 5 rounds on defense.....here's the issue.... NOT ONE OF THEM HAS HAD A BIG IMPACT. Only AO, Walker and Hand have had even a decent impact.

It has nothing to do with ignoring the defense....its just that every time they've tried it was a massive failure.

Take the BEST player available instead of just going defense "because we never do". If they feel the best player at 7 is Parsons, so be it, but I would take Waddle, Sewell or Chase over Parsons and be very happy. You don't bypass the BPA in 2021 just because Wayne Fontes liked drafting offensive players!

Quin was really bad. This draft record puts it into some perspective...but then if you layer on top of that all of the bad former NE and Vatai contracts. Team is shit..

 

[boogerlovejoy]

Quin was really bad. This draft record puts it into some perspective...but then if you layer on top of that all of the bad former NE and Vatai contracts. Team is shit..

Not one good pick on defense in the last 4 years. If I had to put money on the BEST pick in that time frame....I'd have to say Amani Oruwariye.

And that's sad.

 

[tomdalton22]

Not one good pick on defense in the last 4 years. If I had to put money on the BEST pick in that time frame....I'd have to say Amani Oruwariye.

And that's sad.

Best pick, or best player? My guess is the best player will end up being Okudah. Not that I think he's the next Patrick Petterson, but I think he will end up being the best defensive player on the team by 2022. #3 is still too early to take him though

 

[boogerlovejoy]

Best pick, or best player? My guess is the best player will end up being Okudah. Not that I think he's the next Patrick Petterson, but I think he will end up being the best defensive player on the team by 2022. #3 is still too early to take him though

I'd say AO is the best pick and player of that group of 12, so far.

I really, REALLY hope you're right about Okudah though, Tom. He was not good at all last year.....but he plays what is now the hardest position for a rookie to play, was in a shitty system with a shitty head coach and absolutely no pass rush.

Hard to judge talent based off of those circumstances.

 

[Mitchrapp]

Mitch, what you're saying would be true if we never, recently or historically, put resources toward defense. We have.....a LOT. It's that they havent worked out AT ALL.

Lets look at the last 4 years......first 5 rounds.

2020
Round 1 - Okudah....early, but isn't looking good.
Round 3 - The shitty Okwara.....early, injured. We'll see. No impact so far.

2019
Round 2 - Tavai.....shitty. Might not make this or any roster this year.
Round 3 - Harris - shitty, no impact to this point.
Round 4 - Austin Bryant -Shitty. That is all
Round 5 - Oruwariye - Good for a 5th round pick. Solid depth corner with some upside.

2018
Round 3 - Tracy Walker - Some good, some bad. Solid round 3 pick. Hopefully new coaching will help him in 2021.
Round 4 - DeShawn Hand - Though LKP laps up his sack juice, he had a solid rookie year and has hardly been an impact since.

2017
Round 1 - Jarrad Davis - Athletic. That his entire plus side. Bad LB or bad coaching....cant tell.....either way.....he was BAD for us.
Round 2 - Teez Tabor - out of NFL after 2 years. Complete waste of a pick.
Round 4 - Reeves-Maybin......solid special teamer that has had little impact on D.
Round 5 - Jamal Agnew. Little defensive impact.....great KR/PR

So....2 1sts, 2 2nd's, 3 3rds, 3 4ths and 2 5ths on defense. That's 12 out of 23 picks in the first 5 rounds on defense.....here's the issue.... NOT ONE OF THEM HAS HAD A BIG IMPACT. Only AO, Walker and Hand have had even a decent impact.

It has nothing to do with ignoring the defense....its just that every time they've tried it was a massive failure.

Also....as far as Free Agents are concerned, almost every FA signing we had in the last 4 years was defensive. Collins, Harmon, Flowers, Harrison, Okwara, Jones, Kennard and Coleman. Our best offensive FA's have been Amendola, TJ Lang, Rick Wagner and Jesse James.....maybe Adrian Peterson.

I'd say that the last regime, Fatty and Quinn, spent MANY more resources, draft capital and FA money, on defense......by a wide margin. Your argument of ignoring the defense simply isn't true.

Take the BEST player available instead of just going defense "because we never do". If they feel the best player at 7 is Parsons, so be it, but I would take Waddle, Sewell or Chase over Parsons and be very happy. You don't bypass the BPA in 2021 just because Wayne Fontes liked drafting offensive players!

Points taken. Keep on trying I guess. Maybe our newly appointed scouting GM is the trick we need. I just don't think a flashy WR helps us now or in the future. If we do I'll root for him and hope for the best but the defense, those damn LB's, are tough to watch.

 

[mhughes0021]

I'd say AO is the best pick and player of that group of 12, so far.

I really, REALLY hope you're right about Okudah though, Tom. He was not good at all last year.....but he plays what is now the hardest position for a rookie to play, was in a shitty system with a shitty head coach and absolutely no pass rush.

Hard to judge talent based off of those circumstances.

That INT was amazing....one of the best plays ive seen a lion make. Hopefully we see more of that in year 2. The talent is there...hopefully he gets put in better position to make plays like that.

 

[boogerlovejoy]

Points taken. Keep on trying I guess. Maybe our newly appointed scouting GM is the trick we need. I just don't think a flashy WR helps us now or in the future. If we do I'll root for him and hope for the best but the defense, those damn LB's, are tough to watch.

The LB's are BRUTAL. Have been since Levy hurt himself. Typical Lions....guy becomes a legit All Pro candidate....considered one of the best young LB in football....signs big deal.....hurts his hip mountain climbing or something.

We have bad luck combined with our awful scouting and player development.

I cannot remember a LB having a big impact on a game since he retired. Kennard had a couple big games, but he was playing DE.

 

[mhughes0021]

The LB's are BRUTAL. Have been since Levy hurt himself. Typical Lions....guy becomes a legit All Pro candidate....considered one of the best young LB in football....signs big deal.....hurts his hip mountain climbing or something.

We have bad luck combined with our awful scouting and player development.

I cannot remember a LB having a big impact on a game since he retired. Kennard had a couple big games, but he was playing DE.

You also shouldn't remember so many low lights. I can't remember a single impact play tavaii made... but I remember all those whiffs in the hole. Davis...I remember all those almost sacks he couldn't finish.

 

[kmd47]

You also shouldn't remember so many low lights. I can't remember a single impact play tavaii made... but I remember all those whiffs in the hole. Davis...I remember all those almost sacks he couldn't finish.

He punched the ball out of the hands of one of the (Chargers?) running backs at the goal line one time... I seent it.

 

[tomdalton22]

I'd say AO is the best pick and player of that group of 12, so far.

I really, REALLY hope you're right about Okudah though, Tom. He was not good at all last year.....but he plays what is now the hardest position for a rookie to play, was in a shitty system with a shitty head coach and absolutely no pass rush.

Hard to judge talent based off of those circumstances.

I agree. I said it in another post. The most difficult transition from college to the NFL is CB. Add in no off season and absolutely no pass rush...he had no chance.

 

[LKP]

I agree. I said it in another post. The most difficult transition from college to the NFL is CB. Add in no off season and absolutely no pass rush...he had no chance.

Plus core muscle surgery that he played on all year plus another injury for IR. It was a perfect storm of shit against him.

We all hope he improves greatly in year 2 with better circumstances.

And more than just pass rush. He couldn't rely on LB or much safety coverage either (Harmon did well first 12 games though)

 

[Mitchrapp]

Detroit Lions add depth in secondary, sign ex-Buffalo Bills S Dean Marlowe

 

[Mitchrapp]

https://sports.yahoo.com/detroit-lions-add-depth-secondary-141300063.html

 

[LKP]

Marlowe did well in Buffalo and can play box and free and slot. Plus special teams..Harris moves down depth chart