2022 How you would have done it post draft thread

[LKP]

actually, it's year 31.

Thought you weren't a Lions fan? Why are you counting?

 

[LKP]

I envy the younger ones who haven't gone through 50 or more years.

90s was childhood so that was a good decade for 6 playoffs in 10 years span. Millen years clearly rough and Mayhew/Schwartz was a 3 year rebuild playoffs that then was super disappointing final 2 years for various reasons even though Mayhew kept that 2011 team together for 2012. Caldwell good 3 of 4 years but nothing more than competitive then. And then Patricia was real rough despite false hope in beginning. And finally last year a known long rebuild beginning was what it was. We'll see if Holmes and Campbell does it right with consistent winners.

But yeah two more decades like the Millen era in the 80s and later 70s would be rough. But doesn't change the fact you just got to wait and see what a brand new group of people can do. They just have more work to do because of the problems Patricia left and a QB change

 

[tomdalton22]

Thought you weren't a Lions fan? Why are you counting?

because it's not very difficult to figure out. Everyone knows the last Lions playoff win was after the 1991 season. I was actually at that game...so I remember it well. We were all surprised that Eric Kramer played so well.

 

[sggatecl]

Continuation of a discussion from a Tiger game thread To give SGG the opportunity to explain how the entire ?outcome? of a draft can be changed when there isn?t an outcome ? not a single draftee have played a single play in the NFL.

Here?s some high expectations shit that didn?t work out too good.

And here are some pleasant surprises.

So again, how do we measure the ?outcome? of a draft for which there is still yet to be an outcome?

Again not to over state the obvious rational, reasonable and logical - not a single one of these draftees has played a single down of NFL football yet.

The difference between pick 20 and pick 32, cheese and crackers for the love of Mike.

Ok. I'll bite. It's rainy and I've got some time to burn.

For the sake of argument, I'll tackle it from your (awful) perspective of 'none of the players have played a down, you can't judge the picks at all'.

Lions go into this draft with picks #2, #32, #34, and #66 and after the trade had #2, #12 and #46.

Now let's say the Lions enter the draft with #2, #20, #34, and #66. The Lions now have more options.

Standing pat is the obvious one but with your premise that all players are equal until they've played in the NFL, we can't really judge that.

Next option is trading. To move up to #12, Holmes gave up a 3rd and moved back in the second. If he had #20, he could have moved up even higher if he wanted, or he could have stuck with the original trade for #12 and probably not given up the 3rd or moved back in the second.

Even if you just view the picks as random lottery tickets, having #20 yields you better and/or more of them. The draft would've been very different.

But you'll always have your Detroit Rams commemorative T-shirt! Nobody can take that away from you.

 

[LKP]

You aren't just moving from 34 to 46 to move up from 20 to 12

Maybe no takers moving higher too. Holmes based on the details he provided about the trade, had Minnesota as a good option and wanted 12 if the board fell with Jameson available. He was available when the Saints took Olave. Holmes got exactly who he wanted if were at pick 32 or 20. I think he has to give up 66 either way especially seeing what the Saints gave up for 16 to 11 move and that we didn't have a 4th round pick or a high 5th

Holmes wanted Jameson. Not Olave, not London, not Wilson. Jameson

https://www.prideofdetroit.com/2022...-details-about-detroit-lions-day-1-draft-haul

Pick 20 or pick 32. We would have to give up 66 and move down 12 spots. It's amazing Holmes pulled that off from 32 but he did it. Holmes literally made the Stafford/Rams Super Bowl win moot with how he worked that trade

And Travon Walker and the Jaguars/Baalke made the Packers feel good win Week 18 moot too. Plus we save a little money with pick 2 or pick 1 slot.

 

[sggatecl]

As for the topic at hand:

I'm ALSO going to roll with the trade cause I loved it. Lions made a bold move and you love to see your team make bold moves on their Super Bowl.

I'm going to try to do this with a limited amount of hindsight and factor in what was available later as little as possible.

2) EDGE Aidan Hutchinson - I was team Thibs until very recently but I've been warming to Hutch ever since he posted really good numbers at the combine to dispel the misnomer that he wasn't an elite athlete.

12) S Kyle Hamilton - Funny thing is, I may actually like the Jameson Williams pick more now. But at the time, my thought was you want as many day 1 starters as possible. I'm also leery Brisker might not be available at 46 ( he was, selected 48). I need a safety and Hamilton by all accounts should solid for years to come.

2) WR George Pickens - Like Williams, falls in the draft due to an injury. However, he has actually recovered so he can play day 1 after missing most of 2021.

3) Channing Tindall - Relieved he falls to the Lions here. Ignored LB up until now but our patience pays off.

5) CB - Christian Benford - Had 7 picks and 18 pass breakups in 2021. More physical than fast but still not slow. Could develop into good depth.

6) LB Malcolm Rodriguez - No change. Love this pick. Jarrod Davis with a brain.

6) OLB James Houston - No change. Stood out in the East/West game, had never heard of him before that. Needs to get bigger from what I understand.

7) OG Andrew Stueber - We're finally at a point with the offensive line where we can develop talent. Stueber played tackle at Michigan but projects as a guard. Brutal run blocker, can develop pass blocking while sitting and learning behind an already stout offensive line.

 

[LKP]

As for the topic at hand:

I'm ALSO going to roll with the trade cause I loved it. Lions made a bold move and you love to see your team make bold moves on their Super Bowl.

I'm going to try to do this with a limited amount of hindsight and factor in what was available later as little as possible.

2) EDGE Aidan Hutchinson - I was team Thibs until very recently but I've been warming to Hutch ever since he posted really good numbers at the combine to dispel the misnomer that he wasn't an elite athlete.

12) S Kyle Hamilton - Funny thing is, I may actually like the Jameson Williams pick more now. But at the time, my thought was you want as many day 1 starters as possible. I'm also leery Brisker might not be available at 46 ( he was, selected 48). I need a safety and Hamilton by all accounts should solid for years to come.

2) WR George Pickens - Like Williams, falls in the draft due to an injury. However, he has actually recovered so he can play day 1 after missing most of 2021.

3) Channing Tindall - Relieved he falls to the Lions here. Ignored LB up until now but our patience pays off.

5) CB - Christian Benford - Had 7 picks and 18 pass breakups in 2021. More physical than fast but still not slow. Could develop into good depth.

6) LB Malcolm Rodriguez - No change. Love this pick. Jarrod Davis with a brain.

6) OLB James Houston - No change. Stood out in the East/West game, had never heard of him before that. Needs to get bigger from what I understand.

7) OG Andrew Stueber - We're finally at a point with the offensive line where we can develop talent. Stueber played tackle at Michigan but projects as a guard. Brutal run blocker, can develop pass blocking while sitting and learning behind an already stout offensive line.

You can't have Round 3 if you do the trade. Also trading for a safety when you could have stayed put at 32 or 34 for Cine and Brisker and kept 66. I just don't see Hamilton that much better than Cine or Brisker

Check out the offensive tackle they got from TCU as UDFA and gave a large bonus too (more than Jarrad Davis). I like his potential so am ok with the Lucas pick in Round 7 because of that.

 

[sggatecl]

You aren't just moving from 34 to 46 to move up from 20 to 12

Maybe no takers moving higher too. Holmes based on the details he provided about the trade, had Minnesota as a good option and wanted 12 if the board fell with Jameson available. He was available when the Saints took Olave. Holmes got exactly who he wanted if were at pick 32 or 20. I think he has to give up 66 either way especially seeing what the Saints gave up for 16 to 11 move and that we didn't have a 4th round pick or a high 5th

Holmes wanted Jameson. Not Olave, not London, not Wilson. Jameson

https://www.prideofdetroit.com/2022...-details-about-detroit-lions-day-1-draft-haul

Pick 20 or pick 32. We would have to give up 66 and move down 12 spots. It's amazing Holmes pulled that off from 32 but he did it. Holmes literally made the Stafford/Rams Super Bowl win moot with how he worked that trade

Have you ever heard of a GM saying 'Well, we wanted this guy but went with another because he was more affordable'? No, and you probably never will. Maybe he did want Jameson and nobody else. You'll never know for sure because he didn't have the ammunition to move up for it.

Regardless, nobody is arguing that he didn't do a great job with that trade. He's being praised by everyone for it. But to say 20/34/66 would've yielded the same results as 12/34/66 is silly. All draft pick value charts I've looked at show the gap in value between 12 and 20 is similar or greater to the gap between 66 and 96. Which means Holmes may have been able to include 96 (or lower) instead of 66.

And Travon Walker and the Jaguars/Baalke made the Packers feel good win Week 18 moot too. Plus we save a little money with pick 2 or pick 1 slot.

Irrelevant and redundant but thanks for pointing it out anyways.

 

[sggatecl]

You can't have Round 3 if you do the trade.

Kerby Joseph was picked in the 3rd. Why don't I get a 3rd round pick?

Also trading for a safety when you could have stayed put at 32 or 34 for Cine and Brisker and kept 66. I just don't see Hamilton that much better than Cine or Brisker

That's just a disagreement we'll have. I think Hamilton is far superior to Cine and Brisker. I also didn't think Brisker was worth taking as high as 32/34 so if Cine was gone at 32 I'm SOL.

Check out the offensive tackle they got from TCU as UDFA and gave a large bonus too (more than Jarrad Davis). I like his potential so am ok with the Lucas pick in Round 7 because of that.

I made my picks not taking into account UDFA availability and with as little memory as to who fell in the draft. But that's exciting to hear. OL depth is always a good thing. Reminds my of the Tyrell Crosby pick. Got him late, developed him and he ended up playing quite a few games in a starting role.

 

[LKP]

Have you ever heard of a GM saying 'Well, we wanted this guy but went with another because he was more affordable'? No, and you probably never will. Maybe he did want Jameson and nobody else. You'll never know for sure because he didn't have the ammunition to move up for it.

Regardless, nobody is arguing that he didn't do a great job with that trade. He's being praised by everyone for it. But to say 20/34/66 would've yielded the same results as 12/34/66 is silly. All draft pick value charts I've looked at show the gap in value between 12 and 20 is similar or greater to the gap between 66 and 96. Which means Holmes may have been able to include 96 (or lower) instead of 66.



Irrelevant and redundant but thanks for pointing it out anyways.

He laid out the events. He didn't want to move up for Olave or London

 

[tomdalton22]

He laid out the events. He didn't want to move up for Olave or London

we all know that GMs don't lie :lmao:

"we had Olave 1 and Williams 1a. Once Olave was gone we felt we needed to move up to grab our second choice" Even if it's the truth, he isn't going to say it.

 

[Mitchrapp]

90s was childhood so that was a good decade for 6 playoffs in 10 years span. Millen years clearly rough and Mayhew/Schwartz was a 3 year rebuild playoffs that then was super disappointing final 2 years for various reasons even though Mayhew kept that 2011 team together for 2012. Caldwell good 3 of 4 years but nothing more than competitive then. And then Patricia was real rough despite false hope in beginning. And finally last year a known long rebuild beginning was what it was. We'll see if Holmes and Campbell does it right with consistent winners.

But yeah two more decades like the Millen era in the 80s and later 70s would be rough. But doesn't change the fact you just got to wait and see what a brand new group of people can do. They just have more work to do because of the problems Patricia left and a QB change

How many playoff wins genius?

 

[LKP]

we all know that GMs don't lie :lmao:

"we had Olave 1 and Williams 1a. Once Olave was gone we felt we needed to move up to grab our second choice" Even if it's the truth, he isn't going to say it.

Read what he said. He praised God the Saints took Olave

 

[tomdalton22]

Read what he said. He praised God the Saints took Olave

again...GM's don't lie:lmao:

 

[mhughes0021]

As for the topic at hand:

I'm ALSO going to roll with the trade cause I loved it. Lions made a bold move and you love to see your team make bold moves on their Super Bowl.

I'm going to try to do this with a limited amount of hindsight and factor in what was available later as little as possible.

2) EDGE Aidan Hutchinson - I was team Thibs until very recently but I've been warming to Hutch ever since he posted really good numbers at the combine to dispel the misnomer that he wasn't an elite athlete.

12) S Kyle Hamilton - Funny thing is, I may actually like the Jameson Williams pick more now. But at the time, my thought was you want as many day 1 starters as possible. I'm also leery Brisker might not be available at 46 ( he was, selected 48). I need a safety and Hamilton by all accounts should solid for years to come.

2) WR George Pickens - Like Williams, falls in the draft due to an injury. However, he has actually recovered so he can play day 1 after missing most of 2021.

3) Channing Tindall - Relieved he falls to the Lions here. Ignored LB up until now but our patience pays off.

5) CB - Christian Benford - Had 7 picks and 18 pass breakups in 2021. More physical than fast but still not slow. Could develop into good depth.

6) LB Malcolm Rodriguez - No change. Love this pick. Jarrod Davis with a brain.

6) OLB James Houston - No change. Stood out in the East/West game, had never heard of him before that. Needs to get bigger from what I understand.

7) OG Andrew Stueber - We're finally at a point with the offensive line where we can develop talent. Stueber played tackle at Michigan but projects as a guard. Brutal run blocker, can develop pass blocking while sitting and learning behind an already stout offensive line.

Love this draft!

 

[LKP]

again...GM's don't lie:lmao:

He wouldn't have traded to 12. As soon as Olave was gone, he made the trade. So he didn't lie. This is the most transparent front office and coach we have ever had. It's a breath of fresh air

And everyone knows Jameson>Olave if not for ACL

 

[sggatecl]

Kerby Joseph was picked in the 3rd. Why don't I get a 3rd round pick?

 

[LKP]

Thinking 66.

Still like Jameson over Hamilton or Pickens
We will come around to Paschal especially if he xan play dt and le. Dline needed that last piece. Holmes might live and die by levi, mcneil, hutch and paschal. Young dline that could become something
Heck might like Joseph over Hamilton. We will see

Bottom line. Dline loaded young talent and nobody is loving this offense with pickens instead of jameson

Can see the bitching now. Wahhhh why did we use a 1st round pick and 66 and value in 2nd on a stupid slow safety. Like taking a te top 10

 

[sggatecl]

Thinking 66.

Yeah, that's what I thought. Probably the closest we'll ever come to see you admitting you were wrong. I'll take it.

Still like Jameson over Hamilton or Pickens
We will come around to Paschal especially if he xan play dt and le. Dline needed that last piece. Holmes might live and die by levi, mcneil, hutch and paschal. Young dline that could become something
Heck might like Joseph over Hamilton. We will see

Bottom line. Dline loaded young talent and nobody is loving this offense with pickens instead of jameson

Can see the bitching now. Wahhhh why did we use a 1st round pick and 66 and value in 2nd on a stupid slow safety. Like taking a te top 10

Man, it's amazing how 3 GMs later you're still so sensitive about defending the Lions every move. Even if nobody is attacking them and they're receiving praise. This is simply a thread on what we'd have done differently. That's all. Hell, my post was pretty clear that as I did my 'version' it made me like Holmes draft even more.

 

[LKP]

Just commenting on your picks. You came to the same conclusion i did. Holmes draft is better.

I know this board would not be high on this offense with pickens. Or if jameson was gone, i wonder if homes ups the ante on deebo

Would you really be that high on the defense with hamilton and tindall added. I dont think anyone would

At least we got giddy on the offense now. And maybe we should by adding hutch, paschal and joseph. Any lb that has ever donned a lions uni is hated in the last 20 years. Add barnes to the pile way too soon. Board soon enough. Maybe just maybe the dline helps anzalone and davis enough. They have problems but also skills. Your faith in Dean and Tindall. Will see how that works out for those guys next 4 years