Extension

[spockmaster]

john parent had a good point over at motorcitybengals: leyland only got a year, and its not like we cant fire him at the end of the year if we fall flat and miss the playoffs again.

im not keen on 4 years for DD, but i dont really mind that he got extended. he's been OK, but not great imo. a lot of his highs have been offset by his lows.

 

[tycobb420]

I would have waited until the end of the year for an extension. Leyland's is not a big deal. DD is more disconcerting. However, I do wonder about Illitch and whether he and DD have different visions b.c sometimes it seems like DD's moves contradict each other.

 

[Thumb]

Every year except 2008 the Tigers were in the thick of it for a good part of the season, when was the last time the Tigers could say that? 1987?

Also the Mets and Cubs proved Payroll does not = success.

If thats good enough for you then so be it... It's not good enough for me. With an open checkbook and an owner who wants to win, in the thick of it isn't good enough.

The Mets and Cubs have 2 of the worst front offices in baseball, which kind of proves my point that an extension is not deserved.

Well their are 30 teams in MLB and 12 of them spend more then 100 million.

For 8 playoff spots, 4 teams ahead of Detroit in payroll have 0 shot at the playoffs, and we don't have an open checkbook, infact Illitch wanted to cut payroll.

You can't buy success, even the Yankees missed the playoffs with a 200+ million dollar payroll.


The front offices of the Mets and Cubs may be horrible, but you can't seriously think Dombrowski belongs anywhere near being lumped in with them can you?

 

[deathroh]

Now those are some quality arguing tools! Suck on that espn!

 

[iamthetutor]

Thank god. This needed to happen. I'm tired of fairweather fans calling for both their heads after each loss..

 

[food4thought]

I'm not near as sold on Leyland as I am on DD. Aside from the extensions he gave Guillen, Bonderman, and Willis he's been excellent on FA/signings. And aside from the Rentawreck trade his trades have been outstanding.

Leyland and his sunday lineups and second half collapses still bother me... but we'll see.

 

[johnny2x2x]

Leyland probably deserves another year, but I would have liked to see it happen later in the season if not after the season. It's not like the Tigers haven't overcome some misfortune this season.

DD? 4 Years? I know our Farm System isn't rated real high by outsiders, but I think it's better than people think. We've developed some good players and it seems like we always have prospects that other teams want. DD makes some bad moves, but he makes some good ones too. As far as trades go he's an above average GM, as far as contracts go, below average. As far as the farm system goes, I think he's better than average.

This organization is not that long removed from 118 losses, we now have an annual playoff contender on our hands, that's a lot of progress.

 

[Mitchrapp]

Thank god. This needed to happen. I'm tired of fairweather fans calling for both their heads after each loss..

Its not all about that. If we don't like the lineup shouldn't we have a right to say something? He makes some questionable moves.

 

[kgdetroit]

If thats good enough for you then so be it... It's not good enough for me. With an open checkbook and an owner who wants to win, in the thick of it isn't good enough.

The Mets and Cubs have 2 of the worst front offices in baseball, which kind of proves my point that an extension is not deserved.

Well their are 30 teams in MLB and 12 of them spend more then 100 million.

For 8 playoff spots, 4 teams ahead of Detroit in payroll have 0 shot at the playoffs, and we don't have an open checkbook, infact Illitch wanted to cut payroll.

You can't buy success, even the Yankees missed the playoffs with a 200+ million dollar payroll.


The front offices of the Mets and Cubs may be horrible, but you can't seriously think Dombrowski belongs anywhere near being lumped in with them can you?

Are you sure its the Yankees you want to cite to make that point? They may have missed the playoffs now and again. but they are the benchmark of success in baseball. They consistently win their division, which is markedly better year after year than the Tigers' division and play in the World Series more often than any other team. Which is what they should do, given their payroll.

I don't equate Dombrowski with those front offices, I think he is a better than decent GM. I was just making a point. But to blindly tout someone because he happens to be a part of my home team without giving credence to his shortcomings isn't right to me. I support him and support my team, but ill sure as hell criticize them when they aren't living up to reasonable expectations. Is it unreasonable to expect this team to make the playoffs every few years or, gasp, win the division?

 

[jdeb]

I would not have done it. I would have waited until the season was over. Why Illitch did this puzzles me... Time for accountability, especially DD.

 

[jh1spartanfan]

Yes, it was great how DD and Leyland got the Tigers to the WS in 06, but since then what do they have to show for? The Tigers have been absolutley mediocre. I think it's kind of like the Pistons under Carlisle. He helped the Pistons become a solid team again, but they moved on to Larry Brown and won a championship. If they don't make the play-offs this year, it will be time to move on.

 

[Thumb]

Are you sure its the Yankees you want to cite to make that point? They may have missed the playoffs now and again. but they are the benchmark of success in baseball. They consistently win their division, which is markedly better year after year than the Tigers' division and play in the World Series more often than any other team. Which is what they should do, given their payroll.

I don't equate Dombrowski with those front offices, I think he is a better than decent GM. I was just making a point. But to blindly tout someone because he happens to be a part of my home team without giving credence to his shortcomings isn't right to me. I support him and support my team, but ill sure as hell criticize them when they aren't living up to reasonable expectations. Is it unreasonable to expect this team to make the playoffs every few years or, gasp, win the division?

I'm not touting anyone. I'm only arguing that he has done a better then average job. Has he made some real boneheaded moves? Yes he has.

But you still can't question what he has done for this team, took us from being bottom feeders, and made us contenders every year but 2008, even if in the end we did not make the playoffs every year, or win the division, but he put together a team that could have.

 

[cmlfactor]

Dude seriously? Doug Fister gets one win in a Detroit uniform and now DD is a master GM again. This franchise just seems notorious for jumping the gun on personell...

 

[tigers99888]

I hope there are some incentives if the team doesn't get to the postseason.. DD getting a 4 year extension is certainly a headscratcher.. I'd be all for extended Leyland if he agreed on a new staff if the team doesn't make the postseason.. Yeah regardless, this sends the message that Illitch is satisfied with the front office and coaching staff..

 

[kgdetroit]

Are you sure its the Yankees you want to cite to make that point? They may have missed the playoffs now and again. but they are the benchmark of success in baseball. They consistently win their division, which is markedly better year after year than the Tigers' division and play in the World Series more often than any other team. Which is what they should do, given their payroll.

I don't equate Dombrowski with those front offices, I think he is a better than decent GM. I was just making a point. But to blindly tout someone because he happens to be a part of my home team without giving credence to his shortcomings isn't right to me. I support him and support my team, but ill sure as hell criticize them when they aren't living up to reasonable expectations. Is it unreasonable to expect this team to make the playoffs every few years or, gasp, win the division?

I'm not touting anyone. I'm only arguing that he has done a better then average job. Has he made some real boneheaded moves? Yes he has.

But you still can't question what he has done for this team, took us from being bottom feeders, and made us contenders every year but 2008, even if in the end we did not make the playoffs every year, or win the division, but he put together a team that could have.

I should have clarified, I wasn't meaning you specifically. It just seems to me that a lot of fans, once they experience a modicum of success, seem to gloss over the negative and fall in like sheep and tow the proverbial company line because once upon a time they almost won something. Your point is taken and I understand what you're saying, for what its worth I think they should get an extension, but I would have prefered for Illitch to wait until the season is over because they are only 4 games up and have a history of falling apart down the stretch.

However I don't think that past performance i.e. the 90s and early 2000s should have a bearing on how we view Dombrowski's performance. Because the team sucked and now ALMOST makes the playoffs every year is like being kicked in the nuts when you wake up every morning and calling it a good day when for once you wake up to a punch in the face. I don't think competing with a trash Twins team who every time they make the playoffs get torched or a schizophrenic White Sox team for a division we never win is successful, but maybe I'm crazy.

 

[staegrac]

I'm not near as sold on Leyland as I am on DD. Aside from the extensions he gave Guillen, Bonderman, and Willis he's been excellent on FA/signings. And aside from the Rentawreck trade his trades have been outstanding.

Leyland and his sunday lineups and second half collapses still bother me... but we'll see.

I agree I am not sure what to really think with the JL extension...He JL always had second half collapses even with other teams? His lifetime winning % would almost seam to lead someone to believe this

 

[austindayeisaboss]

i think the deserve it just give them the extentions at the nd of the year so that they have something to work for and not have it just handed to them

 

[jimrice]

I don't see why people are complaining.

It's not like they can't still be fired. But now they can focus on winning this season and not their jobs, that makes a lot of sense to me.

Also for people who were disillusioned, Kirk Gibson was not coming here next year even if Leyland was gone. A rookie manager who has a great shot to win his division with a Cinderella team, no way he runs from that after this year, he would look like the worlds biggest asshole.

I'm not sold on Brookens for those who think he was heir apparent, I'm also not a huge Leyland supporter, but I think he gets raked over the coals for far more then he should.

My only gripe is giving DD 4 years, why not just extend them both 1 year for now, what DD does in this off season to keep the Tigers in the race next season will say a lot, if he can't land some kind of deal for a 2nd and 3rd basemen, plus probably 1 starter, 4 years is going to seem like eons.

I agree with this. I'm not a huge Leyland guy, but he's no worse than most managers. In fact, he's exactly the same as most, as a large percentage manage based on previously established ideas. Other than Joe Maddon, who incorporates some new ideas, almost all the managers seems pretty much the same to me. Gibson included, based on the series with the D-Backs this year.

Dombrowski has to be considered above average, I would think. Odds are that his replacement would be worse.

 

[jh1spartanfan]

If they don't make the play-offs Leyland needs to go. 5 years in a row without a play-off apperence, it would be time for something new. If they make it sure go ahead and give him another year or two, how much longer does he plan on coaching anyways?

As for DD, I think he gets too, much credit from some and not enough from others. He did an excellent job of rebuilding the Tigers, but hasn't been able to get them over the hump, yet. Some of that rebuilding was Illitch opening the checkbook, but a lot of it was about getting guys like Pudge, Ordonez, Rogers, Polanco. Also, I think a lot of people are upset about the JJ deal, but I think as a whole his trading (miggy, Polanco, etc.) has been good, it's been his contracts that have held us back a little. Again, with DD, I think he probably deserved a 4-year deal had they made the play-offs, but I really would have liked to see it done when/if that happens.

 

[biggunsbob]

Not sure how i feel about this.. DD contract is to long.... Jimmy Smokes contract is not short enough... heck i don't know.. I want them all to do well but it gets maddening not winning this division year after year. Maybe 2011 is the year...