Game 10: Lions @ Browns Thread

[tomdalton22]

Imo, there were better offers but they had to appease Matty so he could go to LA. And Holmes wanted Goff. Maybe we could have gotten one of those QB's this season.

this would be my biggest concern with Holmes...his decision to bring Goff to Detroit.

 

[boogerlovejoy]

this would be my biggest concern with Holmes...his decision to bring Goff to Detroit.

IIRC.....it was the reason the Rams gave a 2nd 1st round pick. I do not believe it was something we ASKED for.

And if that's true....of course they're going to try to spin it in a positive way. "Yes, we really wanted Jared....blah blah blah". No reason to say anything else.

My only complaint about the decision to bring him here is the fact we extended him so he is VERY likely here next year.

Pre June 1 Release
$30,500,000 2022 Dead Cap
$650,000 2022 Savings

___________________________________________________

Post June 1 Release
$20,500,000 2022 Dead Cap
$10,000,000 2023 Dead Cap
$10,650.000 2022 Savings

 

[mhughes0021]

While I am not thrilled about this offense, or the play calling of Lynn or Campbell (especially Campbell)....I don't see the need to fire Lynn.

We have the worst quarterback and wr groups in the NFL.......probably the worst in the NFL for a 20 year period. We should do a poll of that......anyway, the talent here is so bad that our #1 WR yesterday was a guy who couldn't beat out Ben Skowronek for a roster spot on the Rams. St. Brown is a #4 at best (so far).....Raymond is a legit slot guy but we ask him to play outside and he usually sees the other teams top CB.

And, coupled with that, we have the worst QB's in the league.......and I'm not sure who should get more blame....the WR because they cannot get open, or the QB for not being able to make more than 1 read and then dump it down. It's a fucking shit show.

There needs to be some patience from the fan base. Do we deserve better? Yes. Has the fan base been patient enough? Yes. But that has nothing to do with Campbell or Lynn. They didn't create 64 years of shitty ownership/management/football.

Both are true. Worst qb/wr combo in the league. And Lynn sucks and deserves to get fired. You don't need elite wr talent to run a crossing route vs man coverage and get someone open. Tell me the last time you saw that.... has it even happened this year!? Lol

This coaching staff is a joke. Id be 100% fine if they were all gone next year.

 

[tomdalton22]

IIRC.....it was the reason the Rams gave a 2nd 1st round pick. I do not believe it was something we ASKED for.

And if that's true....of course they're going to try to spin it in a positive way. "Yes, we really wanted Jared....blah blah blah". No reason to say anything else.

then don't do the deal with the Rams. Go with the Panther deal what would have given them an early first last year...or hear out the 49ers. They probably would have given 2 firsts (#14 last year) and Jimmy G who is no worse than Goff and could have been cut after this season with no cap hit.

 

[tigermud]

Agree, been very happy and impressed with Glenn, maybe they should make him the HC

https://www.si.com/nfl/lions/news/aaron-glenn-defense-performing-well-for-detroit-lions

 

[Mitchrapp]

Imo, an extra pick matters little if they passes on a top 10 pick. Especially when the picks get delayed. None last season and the 2nd one in '23. And most likely low draft pics. Could have drafted Sewell and a QB.

 

[boogerlovejoy]

then don't do the deal with the Rams. Go with the Panther deal what would have given them an early first last year...or hear out the 49ers. They probably would have given 2 firsts (#14 last year) and Jimmy G who is no worse than Goff and could have been cut after this season with no cap hit.

LOL.....how can you predict that?? They "probably" would have? OK, LKP.....and every 2nd year player "PROBABLY" gets a LOT better just because it's his 2nd year in a system, right?

They took the best deal they could get. Two 1sts, a 3rd and Goff. Absolutely no way of telling how bad Goff would be. And I'm not convinced that Bridgewater would be any better with this group of WR. No way.

People need to understand this. They had already written this year off before the first pre-season snap. Even with Bridgewater and Parsons, this is probably a winless team. MAYBE we have one win. Maybe. Bridgewater would still need to be replaced but instead of having 2 ADDITIONAL future firsts to do that with......we'd have nothing. Parsons would be great.....don't get me wrong.....but we'd still need 3 WR, a QB, 2 LB's, 2-3 CB's.......only we'd have no additional 1st round picks to fill those voids.

 

[tomdalton22]

LOL.....how can you predict that?? They "probably" would have? OK, LKP.....and every 2nd year player "PROBABLY" gets a LOT better just because it's his 2nd year in a system, right?

They took the best deal they could get. Two 1sts, a 3rd and Goff. Absolutely no way of telling how bad Goff would be. And I'm not convinced that Bridgewater would be any better with this group of WR. No way.

People need to understand this. They had already written this year off before the first pre-season snap. Even with Bridgewater and Parsons, this is probably a winless team. MAYBE we have one win. Maybe. Bridgewater would still need to be replaced but instead of having 2 ADDITIONAL future firsts to do that with......we'd have nothing. Parsons would be great.....don't get me wrong.....but we'd still need 3 WR, a QB, 2 LB's, 2-3 CB's.......only we'd have no additional 1st round picks to fill those voids.

well, it has been reported that Shanahan wanted Stafford. They traded their #12 pick, a 2024 first, and a 2022 third to move up to take Lance. Given what they gave away to move up, I think they would have given up a similar amount to get Matt since Shanahan stated he was very interested. I suppose my using the word "probably" was a poor choice.

As far as not knowing how bad Goff was...the Lions have the GM with most knowledge on the abilities of Goff since he scouted him, told the Rams to draft him. It should really make you question the abilities of Holmes if he didn't know how bad Goff really is.

 

[mhughes0021]

i can predict with 100% accuracy a rookie QB would be just as shitty as Goff or better and cost 30 mil less.

 

[boogerlovejoy]

well, it has been reported that Shanahan wanted Stafford. They traded their #12 pick, a 2024 first, and a 2022 third to move up to take Lance. Given what they gave away to move up, I think they would have given up a similar amount to get Matt since Shanahan stated he was very interested. I suppose my using the word "probably" was a poor choice.

As far as not knowing how bad Goff was...the Lions have the GM with most knowledge on the abilities of Goff since he scouted him, told the Rams to draft him. It should really make you question the abilities of Holmes if he didn't know how bad Goff really is.

Not if it was necessary to take on Goff's contract to make the deal happen. For all anyone knows, Holmes might not have wanted anything to do with Goff but including him in the deal was necessary. Other sports use this method ALL THE TIME. If that is the case, then of course he's going to say he wants him here and he was "an integral part" of the deal.

SF would be stupid to offer up the same package for a 33 year old QB already making $25M+/year than they would for the chance to draft a 21 year old QB who will have 4 years on a rookie contract. Even if they did like Stafford a lot.

THAT.....would be stupid GM'ing.

 

[boogerlovejoy]

i can predict with 100% accuracy a rookie QB would be just as shitty as Goff or better and cost 30 mil less.

The difference in cap hits between Goff and Jaycee Horn (last years #8 pick) is less than $7M this year.

Next year it jumps to $26.36M

That's assuming that you were talking about taking the Panthers deal and selecting a QB in the #8 spot.

If you weren't.......carry on.

 

[tomdalton22]

Not if it was necessary to take on Goff's contract to make the deal happen. For all anyone knows, Holmes might not have wanted anything to do with Goff but including him in the deal was necessary. Other sports use this method ALL THE TIME. If that is the case, then of course he's going to say he wants him here and he was "an integral part" of the deal.

SF would be stupid to offer up the same package for a 33 year old QB already making $25M+/year than they would for the chance to draft a 21 year old QB who will have 4 years on a rookie contract. Even if they did like Stafford a lot.

THAT.....would be stupid GM'ing.

well, the Lions don't have exclusive rights to stupid GM'ing.

The extra 1st would be similar to why the Rams gave up the extra 1st...to take Jimmy G and his salary.

 

[boogerlovejoy]

well, the Lions don't have exclusive rights to stupid GM'ing.

The extra 1st would be similar to why the Rams gave up the extra 1st...to take Jimmy G and his salary.

Everyone has their opinion and we argue them back and forth here.....that's part of the fun.

My opinion is that we took the best deal for the long term success of this team.

Everyone wants results from every player and draft pick RIGHT NOW. I don't believe that is how DC and Holmes are viewing this. My opinion is that they knew 2021 was going to be a shit show.....so they dumped Stafford for the best package of picks they could get.....dumped all crap contracts they could that would even bring a small amount of cap relief this year and took as many of the dead cap hits this year as possible. Detroit has $64M tied up in dead cap this year......about 1/3 of the total salary cap. That's an INCREDIBLE amount. But that number falls to $9M next year.....and almost $0 in 2023. We will have FA money to spend each of the next two off seasons.....along with FOUR 1st round picks.

Fuck this year. Who gives a flying fuck if we had Teddy Bridgewater instead of shitty Jared Goff. Parsons would be nice, but if we draft Kayvon Thibodeaux we might have our defensive end of the future anyway......and still have an additional 1st round pick.

I just don't get the hate for what has transpired THIS year.......and the only decision I can see that has affected next year is the Goff restructure.

We have found a future STUD OT. We might have found a future starter at CB in UDFA Jerry Jacobs. I really wish Okudah would have had this year to improve but HOPEFULLY he can come back healthy and at least be a plus starter at S. Who knows.

We know Goff isn't the answer. We know Tim Boyle isn't the answer as a backup. Flowers is gone. Vaitai is gone.

They need to fill a LOT of holes......and I'm not here telling you how great DC or Holmes is......because there is no way to really tell at this point. But the fact is, to me, they have started an actual rebuild the right way.

 

[LKP]

Some people just like to complain and act like theyvwould be a good gm lol

Even in a known rebuild year that wasnt going to take 1 year. Fields looks awful. Give me a 2022 or 2023 unknown qb over him. A qb that will be cheaper in 2025 and 2026 when it matters alot more for cap space. If fields does well he is getting paid big sooner

News flash. Better to have a rookie deal qb in 2025 than 2021(a lost year). So hughes, your reasoning for a qb on a rookie deal is better to WAIT a year

Millen to playoffs took 3 years. This could be 3 or 4 and 4 is better if they do it right way with a lasting team with good drafts unlike mayhew with some draft, some trade and some fa splahse. Remember van den bosch and burleson falling off quickly

 

[mhughes0021]

Some people just like to complain and act like theyvwould be a good gm lol

Even in a known rebuild year that wasnt going to take 1 year. Fields looks awful. Give me a 2022 or 2023 unknown qb over him. A qb that will be cheaper in 2025 and 2026 when it matters alot more for cap space. If fields does well he is getting paid big sooner

News flash. Better to have a rookie deal qb in 2025 than 2021(a lost year). So hughes, your reasoning for a qb on a rookie deal is better to WAIT a year

Millen to playoffs took 3 years. This could be 3 or 4 and 4 is better if they do it right way with a lasting team with good drafts unlike mayhew with some draft, some trade and some fa splahse. Remember van den bosch and burleson falling off quickly

Anyone on this board could have done better than Millen and quinn. Anyone on this board could go 0-8-1 and be better than holmes has started. Most on the board could have done better than mayhew.... like everyone except lkp.

 

[mhughes0021]

Everyone has their opinion and we argue them back and forth here.....that's part of the fun.

My opinion is that we took the best deal for the long term success of this team.

Everyone wants results from every player and draft pick RIGHT NOW. I don't believe that is how DC and Holmes are viewing this. My opinion is that they knew 2021 was going to be a shit show.....so they dumped Stafford for the best package of picks they could get.....dumped all crap contracts they could that would even bring a small amount of cap relief this year and took as many of the dead cap hits this year as possible. Detroit has $64M tied up in dead cap this year......about 1/3 of the total salary cap. That's an INCREDIBLE amount. But that number falls to $9M next year.....and almost $0 in 2023. We will have FA money to spend each of the next two off seasons.....along with FOUR 1st round picks.

Fuck this year. Who gives a flying fuck if we had Teddy Bridgewater instead of shitty Jared Goff. Parsons would be nice, but if we draft Kayvon Thibodeaux we might have our defensive end of the future anyway......and still have an additional 1st round pick.

I just don't get the hate for what has transpired THIS year.......and the only decision I can see that has affected next year is the Goff restructure.

We have found a future STUD OT. We might have found a future starter at CB in UDFA Jerry Jacobs. I really wish Okudah would have had this year to improve but HOPEFULLY he can come back healthy and at least be a plus starter at S. Who knows.

We know Goff isn't the answer. We know Tim Boyle isn't the answer as a backup. Flowers is gone. Vaitai is gone.

They need to fill a LOT of holes......and I'm not here telling you how great DC or Holmes is......because there is no way to really tell at this point. But the fact is, to me, they have started an actual rebuild the right way.

I didn't mind the Sewell pick. I hated the goof trade. #1 pick with no franchise changing qb in the draft lol. The value at the top of the draft is at DE. Value position in the draft is WR.

A rookie DE and WR changes nothing for this team when Goof is your qb. We're like 3 years away from a 8 win team lol.... if things go right. Keep in mind Holmes and DC are idiots so the odds things go right is like 5%

Already going into next year with anew OC.

 

[Mitchrapp]

I didn't mind the Sewell pick. I hated the goof trade. #1 pick with no franchise changing qb in the draft lol. The value at the top of the draft is at DE. Value position in the draft is WR.

A rookie DE and WR changes nothing for this team when Goof is your qb. We're like 3 years away from a 8 win team lol.... if things go right. Keep in mind Holmes and DC are idiots so the odds things go right is like 5%

Already going into next year with anew OC.

3 years is a pipedream.

If I knew back in '91 we'd never win another playoff game I would have just gave up on the Lions when Barry retired.

 

[LKP]

Anyone on this board could have done better than Millen and quinn. Anyone on this board could go 0-8-1 and be better than holmes has started. Most on the board could have done better than mayhew.... like everyone except lkp.

You would go 0-16 every year. And nobody here would get this team to playoffs twice like Mayhew. Its not Madden. There are negotiations, competitions, different scouts, medical reports, cap restrictions

Negativity and hindsight. Gonna take 3 years at least. You are all clamoring for .500 now lol when all offseason you knew it would be real low win totals. And this team was depletrd and then got super injured to take it from 3 wins to 0. We knew it will take time. This was a clearing roster and start with draft year

And like i said, better to have a qb still on rookie deal in 2025. 2021 is a lost year. Talk about that point hughes

 

[dtroitlionsfan951]

You would go 0-16 every year. And nobody here would get this team to playoffs twice like Mayhew. Its not Madden. There are negotiations, competitions, different scouts, medical reports, cap restrictions

Negativity and hindsight. Gonna take 3 years at least. You are all clamoring for .500 now lol when all offseason you knew it would be real low win totals. And this team was depletrd and then got super injured to take it from 3 wins to 0. We knew it will take time. This was a clearing roster and start with draft year

And like i said, better to have a qb still on rookie deal in 2025. 2021 is a lost year. Talk about that point hughes

Lol did he really say most could have done better than Mayhew? Most of this board wanted Jeff Okudah.

 

[mhughes0021]

Lol did he really say most could have done better than Mayhew? Most of this board wanted Jeff Okudah.

Okudah was Quin. Do you want me to go through Quins draft history? Free agent history? Coaching hires? Its safe to say you cant do any worse than he did when looking at those 3 buckets.

Holmes is challenging him for the worst GM ever. We will see how it pans out but year 1 was atrocious. Fucked up the draft. The entire coaching staff is a bunch of duds and they are all arguing with each other like a bunch of babies. Free agents include 2 high priced vets from a former team that completely suck....Who does that remind you of? Not to mention now a 3rd vet from his previous team...in game 1 he had multiple drops and was penalized. Good job Holmes!