"People Don't Know How Bad Patricia and Quinn Were"

[Mitchrapp]

Yes. Here's my point. Stafford is 74-90-1. His play during those 165 games has ranged from awful to extraordinary.....typically falling somewhere in the middle. How many games do you think a "league average" guy like Dalton, Foles, Fitzpatrick or even Winston win in that same 165 game span with the same roster. My guess is not nearly as many. Stafford has made this franchise better over 12 years than the roster/coaching dictated it should be.

Stafford has had to play with awful defenses, bad offensive lines, bad running games, TERRIBLE coaching and besides Megatron....a very average supporting cast. All while playing hurt.....taking shots.....and learning 4 different offenses. The guy can play. He has a good reputation around the league because he's fucking good and people in the know realize that.

Look at the bold and I agree with that 100%. Which is why I always say he's the most inconsistent QB I've ever seen and is overall average. Not sure I agree with the rest except I think I made this team better than our coaching.

It's not like the QB you've mentions had good teams either. I would like to say when you said Calvin, and very average supporting cast. Some will bring up that Stafford never makes anyone better. Maybe "very good" QB should.

 

[boogerlovejoy]

Look at the bold and I agree with that 100%. Which is why I always say he's the most inconsistent QB I've ever seen and is overall average. Not sure I agree with the rest except I think I made this team better than our coaching.

It's not like the QB you've mentions had good teams either. I would like to say when you said Calvin, and very average supporting cast. Some will bring up that Stafford never makes anyone better. Maybe "very good" QB should.

Did Pettigrew, Durham, Burelson, Fauria, Scheffler, Titus, Broyles, Bryant Johnson, Jeremy Ross or Kevin Ogletree even find another job the year after they played big roles in our offense? No. NOTHING. But the year earlier they were playing important roles in Detroit. If they were NFL talent.....wouldn't they land somewhere else? Not to mention RB's Kevin Smith, LaGarrett Blount, Best, Abdullah, Kerryon, Joique Bell.....not exactly a list of super talented runners there.

I'd say he made that entire list of players better.....because most of them were on their couch the year after they left Detroit.

 

[tomdalton22]

Did Pettigrew, Durham, Burelson, Fauria, Scheffler, Titus, Broyles, Bryant Johnson, Jeremy Ross or Kevin Ogletree even find another job the year after they played big roles in our offense? No. NOTHING. But the year earlier they were playing important roles in Detroit. If they were NFL talent.....wouldn't they land somewhere else? Not to mention RB's Kevin Smith, LaGarrett Blount, Best, Abdullah, Kerryon, Joique Bell.....not exactly a list of super talented runners there.

I'd say he made that entire list of players better.....because most of them were on their couch the year after they left Detroit.

to be fair, most of those guys should have been on the couch before they got to the Lions.

 

[boogerlovejoy]

to be fair, most of those guys should have been on the couch before they got to the Lions.

Agreed.....but our QB was expected to be "great" with them?

Doesn't make much sense. And yes, I am saying great QB's need weapons to be successful. Can't think of one truly great QB ever that didn't have good skill players around them to help.

 

[Mitchrapp]

Did Pettigrew, Durham, Burelson, Fauria, Scheffler, Titus, Broyles, Bryant Johnson, Jeremy Ross or Kevin Ogletree even find another job the year after they played big roles in our offense? No. NOTHING. But the year earlier they were playing important roles in Detroit. If they were NFL talent.....wouldn't they land somewhere else? Not to mention RB's Kevin Smith, LaGarrett Blount, Best, Abdullah, Kerryon, Joique Bell.....not exactly a list of super talented runners there.

I'd say he made that entire list of players better.....because most of them were on their couch the year after they left Detroit.

Titus was a mess, Broyles was injury prone, Burleson was 33 didn't want to play anymore after the pizza incident (plus his best 2 years were with Minny and Seattle) .. the rest - meh. You're reaching here. How about guys that had good years afterward like Ebron.

 

[Mitchrapp]

Agreed.....but our QB was expected to be "great" with them?

Doesn't make much sense.

Who expected that, the coaching staff?

 

[LKP]

Agreed.....but our QB was expected to be "great" with them?

Doesn't make much sense.

2012/2013 riddled with weapon injuries. Ints caused by weapon problems

Run game was never even average those years. Bush had 1,000 yards but still like 22nd in YPC. Below average at best run game

Defensive problems galore and they didn't force many turnovers.

Stafford not only had bad weapons, he had to do it all.

2012 was rough for him. 2013 he was 6th in TDs but the 19 picks hurt his QB rating (and many many of those picks were not his fault)

2014 Lombardi, no run game. Defense and 11 wins with Calvin/Tate helping

Stafford also became great really mid 2015 through 2020. Once Lombardi left mainly. Caldwell and Cooter lowered his ints big time

His PFF grades in 2016-2020 and 2013 were higher than his PFF grade in 2011 when he threw 41 TDS. Stats are based on team support. Stafford played great all six of those years plus 2011.

2009 rookie year, 2010 injured, 2012 down year with no weapons or run game or defense, 2014 Lombardi mess. 2015 half year Lombardi mess/major Oline problems and 19 TDS and 2 ints second half of season once Lombardi left

 

[boogerlovejoy]

Titus was a mess, Broyles was injury prone, Burleson was 33 didn't want to play anymore after the pizza incident (plus his best 2 years were with Minny and Seattle) .. the rest - meh. You're reaching here. How about guys that had good years afterward like Ebron.

Reaching.....Kris Durham was our #2 for almost 2 years. Burelson was our #2 for 4 years. Durham wasn't even an NFL caliber player. Pettigrew was little more than a blocking TE even from his rookie year. Pettigrew is the definition of making a player better than he is. Stafford made him an 80 catch 700 yard TE when he likely would have been a 2nd or 3rd string TE most places.

 

[Mitchrapp]

Reaching.....Kris Durham was our #2 for almost 2 years. Burelson was our #2 for 4 years. Durham wasn't even an NFL caliber player. Pettigrew was little more than a blocking TE even from his rookie year. Pettigrew is the definition of making a player better than he is. Stafford made him an 80 catch 700 yard TE when he likely would have been a 2nd or 3rd string TE most places.

I doubt it on Pettigrew. Even if he was considered a blocking TE you don't draft guys in the first round if you're not throwing to them. Durham blew and Burleson was a slot and he was decent but nothing fancy. If Matt made him better why did he have better seasons elsewhere.

 

[LKP]

I doubt it on Pettigrew. Even if he was considered a blocking TE you don't draft guys in the first round if you're not throwing to them. Durham blew and Burleson was a slot and he was decent but nothing fancy. If Matt made him better why did he have better seasons elsewhere.

Burleson was younger elsewhere, he was 29 in 2010. 30 in 2011 when he had a nice year and Stafford had 41 TDS (spread it around to Cavlin, Pettigrew, Best, Scheffler, Pettigrew, Titus Young, who all but Best stayed healthy BTW)

Burleson 2010, Stafford hurt all year
Burleson 2012, played 6 games (pizza box year? or 2013). Burleson 2013 at 32 played 9 games

2011 both healthy, nice year and 41 TDS for Stafford

 

[boogerlovejoy]

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/eagles-quarterbacks-coach-brian-johnson-184127692.html

I doubt it on Pettigrew. Even if he was considered a blocking TE you don't draft guys in the first round if you're not throwing to them. Durham blew and Burleson was a slot and he was decent but nothing fancy. If Matt made him better why did he have better seasons elsewhere.

Well to that argument I present to you Golden Tate and Marvin Jones. I guess by that Logic Staff is better than Wilson.....because Tate never had a 1000 yard season in Seattle. He had 3 in Detroit.

Right?

 

[LKP]

There are countless factors
QB, scheme, where they stand on depth chart and targets, how many other weapons there are to spread around

Stafford has had good season with many WRS. And his QB Rating is actually much better without Calvin than with. But there are factors there too, who the OC is, Stafford prime, protection, other weapons etc

 

[Mitchrapp]

Well to that argument I present to you Golden Tate and Marvin Jones. I guess by that Logic Staff is better than Wilson.....because Tate never had a 1000 yard season in Seattle. He had 3 in Detroit.

Right?

More opportunity here with Tate. Better team in Seattle Tate wasn't the top option. Best year here was 2014. Stafford was terrible that year. I guess I can spin anything. Lol.

 

[LKP]

More opportunity here with Tate. Better team in Seattle Tate wasn't the top option. Best year here was 2014. Stafford was terrible that year. I guess I can spin anything. Lol.

The Oline and run game were terrible that year. 3rd WR and rookie Ebron and broken knee Pettigrew. Joe Lombardi and Oline coach were terrible that year. Stafford wasn't terrible that year no matter what his QB rating says.

 

[Mitchrapp]

The Oline and run game were terrible that year. 3rd WR and rookie Ebron and broken knee Pettigrew. Joe Lombardi and Oline coach were terrible that year. Stafford wasn't terrible that year no matter what his QB rating says.

I'm sorry he was "very good" every year. I was mistaken.

 

[LKP]

I'm sorry he was "very good" every year. I was mistaken.

Yes you were. Very mistaken

He led them 11 wins. See you guys only give credit to QBs for wins

 

[byco42]

Originally Posted by Mitchrapp View Post

More opportunity here with Tate. Better team in Seattle Tate wasn't the top option. Best year here was 2014. Stafford was terrible that year. I guess I can spin anything. Lol.

The Oline and run game were terrible that year. 3rd WR and rookie Ebron and broken knee Pettigrew. Joe Lombardi and Oline coach were terrible that year. Stafford wasn't terrible that year no matter what his QB rating says.

You earlier declared that the 2014 team was the best in franchise history.

Here

 

[LKP]

Originally Posted by Mitchrapp View Post




You earlier declared that the 2014 team was the best in franchise history.

Here

Team was really really good. Flaws for any team.

They won 11 games too. Which only one time that was topped which was the 91 Lions season with 12-4

Lions have never won 13 or games in reg season.

 

[Mitchrapp]

Team was really really good. Flaws for any team.

They won 11 games too. Which only one time that was topped which was the 91 Lions season with 12-4

Lions have never won 13 or games in reg season.

Maybe one day we'll have a 25 game season.

 

[byco42]

Team was really really good. Flaws for any team.

They won 11 games too. Which only one time that was topped which was the 91 Lions season with 12-4

Lions have never won 13 or games in reg season.

Why you would think that myself and every other poster here is not keenly aware of this is a mystery.