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Should have kept Prater

zyxt9

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 3, 2011
Messages
7,162
Bullock $750,000 guaranteed
Seibert's guaranteed base is $850,000
Game checks for Santoso and Patterson around $200,000.

That's $1.8 million.

Prater's 2021 hit, $2 million.

Someone once told me the Lions could not pay Prater which is why they didn't keep him...

How 'bout now???
 
Bullock $750,000 guaranteed
Seibert's guaranteed base is $850,000
Game checks for Santoso and Patterson around $200,000.

That's $1.8 million.

Prater's 2021 hit, $2 million.

Someone once told me the Lions could not pay Prater which is why they didn't keep him...

How 'bout now???

Our gm is an idiot.

Prater
2 DTs
Trade for Benson
Trade for goff
Trade for brockers

Has this guy ever watched football?!
 
Lions have missed 3 FGs. Prater has missed 3 FGs this year. Lions missed one XP, Prater is perfect though and that cost the Lions a win

Not a huge difference yet. Seibert keeps getting hurt or COVID though. Yeah a backup kicker is going to probably suck
 
Our gm is an idiot.

Prater
2 DTs
Trade for Benson
Trade for goff
Trade for brockers

Has this guy ever watched football?!

DTs have potential long term. It's their rookie year on a bad team. McNeil been solid and Levi improving (had camp injuries too)

Brockers been solid his entire career. Sucks on the Lions plus a shoulder injury. One more year for him

Goff sucks but a throw in stop gap. Sucks cap so bad from Patricia/Quinn had to restructure him just to make the cap
 
Our gm is an idiot.

Prater
2 DTs
Trade for Benson
Trade for goff
Trade for brockers

Has this guy ever watched football?!

Prater was very old and it was time to find a young kicker who can be around when we may actually be decent. The DT's are rookies on a very bad team and have plenty of time to improve. The Benson trade was a terrible move and a waste of a pick, but it was a late round pick though. Brockers was a good move. He was a solid vet who had a very good worth ethic and is a very good leader. He cost basically nothing to acquire either. He has obviously sucked, but I have no issues with that move.

The Goff move was a gamble for sure and that has not come close to working out. I won't kill Holmes for it though. We were getting a QB who was what 26? and had two pro bowls on his resume, as well as leading his team to a Superbowl. If I told you we could get a QB for basically nothing who has these career stats would you say don?t get him?

26 Years Old
2 Pro Bowls
1 Superbowl Appearance
18,171 Career Passing Yards (263 Passing YPG Average)
107 Career Passing TD?s (1.55 Passing TD per game)
55 Career INT?s
90+ Career Passing Rating
63%+ Career Completion %
Former #1 Overall Pick

IMO that is a no brainer move. You take a shot hoping this guy can be fixed. Holmes took that shot and IMO, it hasn?t worked out and the sooner we pull the plug the better. I won?t kill him for making the move in the first place though as if it works out we accelerate this rebuild by at least a year while not having to spend resourcers searching for a QB.

I think Holmes needs to realize Goff is not the answer and they could do just as good with a low cost vet. I wouldn't pay Goff a penny more then we have already committed and I hope he gets rid of him in 2022. The issue is if we cut him we will have just as much dead money as money saved so there is no savings so they might give him a shot in 2022, but that is a mistake, IMO.
 
Prater was very old and it was time to find a young kicker who can be around when we may actually be decent. The DT's are rookies on a very bad team and have plenty of time to improve. The Benson trade was a terrible move and a waste of a pick, but it was a late round pick though. Brockers was a good move. He was a solid vet who had a very good worth ethic and is a very good leader. He cost basically nothing to acquire either. He has obviously sucked, but I have no issues with that move.

The Goff move was a gamble for sure and that has not come close to working out. I won't kill Holmes for it though. We were getting a QB who was what 26? and had two pro bowls on his resume, as well as leading his team to a Superbowl. If I told you we could get a QB for basically nothing who has these career stats would you say don?t get him?

26 Years Old
2 Pro Bowls
1 Superbowl Appearance
18,171 Career Passing Yards (263 Passing YPG Average)
107 Career Passing TD?s (1.55 Passing TD per game)
55 Career INT?s
90+ Career Passing Rating
63%+ Career Completion %
Former #1 Overall Pick

IMO that is a no brainer move. You take a shot hoping this guy can be fixed. Holmes took that shot and IMO, it hasn?t worked out and the sooner we pull the plug the better. I won?t kill him for making the move in the first place though as if it works out we accelerate this rebuild by at least a year while not having to spend resourcers searching for a QB.

I think Holmes needs to realize Goff is not the answer and they could do just as good with a low cost vet. I wouldn't pay Goff a penny more then we have already committed and I hope he gets rid of him in 2022. The issue is if we cut him we will have just as much dead money as money saved so there is no savings so they might give him a shot in 2022, but that is a mistake, IMO.

Agreed on all. Got to make Goff take a huge pay cut. You just can't have 31 million cap hit for him or 30 million dead. Holmes got screwed because he was only player he could restructure for the most room and Lions needed all that room just to make the cap amount. All that dead money from Quinn/Patricia guys slowed the rebuild a little. 3 years at least to do it, maybe 4 for a real contender.
 
Agreed on all. Got to make Goff take a huge pay cut. You just can't have 31 million cap hit for him or 30 million dead. Holmes got screwed because he was only player he could restructure for the most room and Lions needed all that room just to make the cap amount. All that dead money from Quinn/Patricia guys slowed the rebuild a little. 3 years at least to do it, maybe 4 for a real contender.

Goff taking a paycut in 2022 from a 10.65mil base salary down to the minimum is only way I keep him. Otherwise I take the 30mil dead cap hit and have it all come off the books by 2023. I would love to get rid of the three worst contracts on this team is Goff, Flowers, and Vatai so we can start fresh in 2023 with hopefully a solid roster with all the picks we have, tons of cap space, and still having two first round picks. If we cut Vatai, Goff, and Flowers this off-season, and then Michael Brockers in 2023, we will have less then 100mil in committed cap dollars in 2023. Obviously that number will drop with any FA's we sign this off-season, extensions, and the draft class and whatever else may impact that number. What I am saying is we have the chance this off-season to get all the bad contracts off the books by 2023. Hopefully by then out young guys are developing and we are starting to build a competitive roster.
 
The Goff move was a gamble for sure and that has not come close to working out. I won't kill Holmes for it though.

How can you not kill Holmes for getting Goff? He was the director of college scouting when Goff was drafted. He was with the Rams organization for Goff's entire career. Holmes is the one guy in the league that should know more about Goff than any other GM. It's like he made the same mistake twice. The first time when he told the Rams to draft him and doubled down when he traded for him
 
How can you not kill Holmes for getting Goff? He was the director of college scouting when Goff was drafted. He was with the Rams organization for Goff's entire career. Holmes is the one guy in the league that should know more about Goff than any other GM. It's like he made the same mistake twice. The first time when he told the Rams to draft him and doubled down when he traded for him

"never heard of this Benson guy....gave up 2 picks for him"

Thats all i need to know about our GM.
 
"never heard of this Benson guy....gave up 2 picks for him"

Thats all i need to know about our GM.

Got a pick back. So lost one pick for him. All late rounders

Showed potential. We also have a shit qb so hard for any wr to shine
 
I am not impressed with any decision that has been made by the Fords. Just the recent hires are terrible
Tennessee gets Mike Verbel.
Lions get Matt Patrica.
Now we get Campbell who appears in over his head.

You could see from the first game that Goff sucked and is a shadow of his years with the Rams. I can?t stand to even watch him play now. Not impressed with Campbell and his staff. Yeah they play hard in most games and should have won the Ravens and Vikings game but you just can?t give up those leads. Gotta blame the coaches. How and the hell can our Gm start the season with these Wide Receivers ? Poor noddle arm never had a chance.
Damn it is just frustrating watching the Patriots have a losing season after Brady leaves and the next season they start 7-4 under a rookie qb who can?t even see the blitz coming from his left side. Hell he is way better the Goff so far. Man the Lions just can?t get out of their own way. Freaking Fords. Worst owners in football. One day. Maybe. Other teams rebuild and the lions just never do anything.
 
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Fords hired
Young stubborn hot shot dcs in patricia and schwartz
Former coach everyone loves in caldwell and qb guru. Kind of worked but not over the hump
Now collaboration kings in campbell and holmes and crew
Quinn was highly recommended by that gm decision group
Mayhew solid gm up and comer at time now at wft and helped san fran
Miltary style with ross caused barry to retire
Fresh oc over his head with morningwheg but had millen
Experienced o coach with mariucci but had millen
Great dl teacher and character guy with marinelli plus millen

Need Big Buck back
 
Really hard to say DC is a horrible coach when weighing the team he inherited.

Name 1 coach who could have taken this team to the playoffs. There isn't one. Not Belli, not Lombardi, nor any other Winning establishment Coach Ever could take this team to the playoffs. And because they would fail at that, despite being labeled Winningest Coach, some people on here would say he deserves to be fired! They lied!!! They are hacks!!!

Sorry. The guy as made several rookie coaching mistakes, that is true... but he does not deserve to be written off yet any more than a 1-15 Jimmy Johnson did in his first year.

It is a process with any coach and team at this stage. If you cannot be patient through this year and next, go spend your Lions minutes with family, friends, or hobbies instead and come back in 2023 to see how things played out and THEN bitch about how DC never improved, he was always a hack, a guy who was willing to take on the monumental task of coaching the Lions through this shit but was never going to win more than 4 games a year due to his extreme suckitude.
 
I am not impressed with any decision that has been made by the Fords. Just the recent hires are terrible
Tennessee gets Mike Verbel.
Lions get Matt Patrica.
Now we get Campbell who appears in over his head.

You could see from the first game that Goff sucked and is a shadow of his years with the Rams. I can?t stand to even watch him play now. Not impressed with Campbell and his staff. Yeah they play hard in most games and should have won the Ravens and Vikings game but you just can?t give up those leads. Gotta blame the coaches. How and the hell can our Gm start the season with these Wide Receivers ? Poor noddle arm never had a chance.
Damn it is just frustrating watching the Patriots have a losing season after Brady leaves and the next season they start 7-4 under a rookie qb who can?t even see the blitz coming from his left side. Hell he is way better the Goff so far. Man the Lions just can?t get out of their own way. Freaking Fords. Worst owners in football. One day. Maybe. Other teams rebuild and the lions just never do anything.

Matt Patricia took over a team that had a playoff caliber roster with a top 10 QB. Campbell took over a team that was one of the 3 least talented rosters in the NFL and had some bad contracts with limited cap space. Campbell has really shown well in some games, and has made horrible decisions in others. Let him grow as a coach when this team isn't going anywhere. They need at least 2 seasons to be able to turn this roster around. All off-season everyone knew this was a team that was likely to finish with a top 5 pick in the draft. I think they need to show real growth in year two and admit the mistake they made on Goff.
 
I am not impressed with any decision that has been made by the Fords. Just the recent hires are terrible
Tennessee gets Mike Verbel.
Lions get Matt Patrica.
Now we get Campbell who appears in over his head.

You could see from the first game that Goff sucked and is a shadow of his years with the Rams. I can?t stand to even watch him play now. Not impressed with Campbell and his staff. Yeah they play hard in most games and should have won the Ravens and Vikings game but you just can?t give up those leads. Gotta blame the coaches. How and the hell can our Gm start the season with these Wide Receivers ? Poor noddle arm never had a chance.
Damn it is just frustrating watching the Patriots have a losing season after Brady leaves and the next season they start 7-4 under a rookie qb who can?t even see the blitz coming from his left side. Hell he is way better the Goff so far. Man the Lions just can?t get out of their own way. Freaking Fords. Worst owners in football. One day. Maybe. Other teams rebuild and the lions just never do anything.

Its amazing that good players can make good coaches. I agree with zyxt that he has made mistakes....poor clock management.....end of game defensive stratagies.....but that goes with the territory.

I don't think he seems in over his head at all. This team has no right to be competitive in ANY game they play, let alone games vs the Ravens, Vikings or the Steelers. THERE IS VERY LITTLE talent on this team. We have the worst WR group in the NFL....easily. We have awful LB's. Bad D Line. A battered secondary that is starting 2 UDFA's AND Will Harris (who has the talent level of a bad UDFA). Awful kicker. Terrible QB.

Put it this way....if the Rams call a perfect defensive alignment on a given play.....something that has Ramsey m2m vs the primary WR and Donald and Von Miller vs single coverage blocking.....they are VERY likely to have success on that play. They have the players to execute schemes on a high level and good complimentary players as well.

Flip that. If Detroit were to call the same "perfect" defensive alignment, we have AO in coverage, Harris and maybe Flowers as our primary pass rushers. What are the Lions chances of success on that play? Not nearly as good, I'll guarantee that. And that is in a hypothetical "best case" scenario.

I'm willing to at least give them some time to get this roster to a competitive place before really judging their ability to coach them to success.

The difference between this "rebuild" and a team like the Patriots or anyone else in the middle of a rebuild is that we are starting with NOTHING where as other teams at least start over with some talent. Pats D was still REALLY good after Brady left. They plug in a decent QB and all the sudden they're back to 7-4 and looking good.

Patricia and Quinn were so bad at talent evaluation that they weren't even doing a rebuild here....they took over a 9-7 team with talent on the roster and turned it into a team that couldn't win a game without their starting QB. Not one. Couldn't do it. Trading that QB and then shedding the roster of all those terrible contracts is going to take time. The VERY LITTLE young talent we had here when Campbell and Holmes took over was Hock, Swift, Ragnow and Walker. That's it. And to be honest.....RB, C, S and TE are positions that you can get top tier talent without using round 1 picks. We had ZERO skill position talent. You can only count Okudah if you're judging talent by where they were drafted.....which is stupid. We need an edge rusher, 2 LB's 2 CB's 3 WR's a S and a QB. We have FA and what should be 5 top 110 picks in the upcoming draft. We can fill some of those holes.

I'm not sure if people realize how little talent is currently on this active roster. It's not good.
 
Matt Patricia took over a team that had a playoff caliber roster with a top 10 QB. Campbell took over a team that was one of the 3 least talented rosters in the NFL and had some bad contracts with limited cap space. Campbell has really shown well in some games, and has made horrible decisions in others. Let him grow as a coach when this team isn't going anywhere. They need at least 2 seasons to be able to turn this roster around. All off-season everyone knew this was a team that was likely to finish with a top 5 pick in the draft. I think they need to show real growth in year two and admit the mistake they made on Goff.

I don't think there's much to take away from this season coaching-wise. Lack of talent and injuries, add in roster overturn and lack of cohesion, this was going to be an extremely difficult task to remain competitive. It would probably be difficult to prove they planned on tanking, but I don't think they had winning in mind when it came to constructing this roster. Was Goff a bad gamble? or did Holmes know exactly what he was getting? Maybe it's just my conspiracy-brained denial, but it seems to me that they had no intention of putting Goff in a position to succeed, suffer through the two years and get your extra 1st round pick.

I'm honestly shocked that they've had as many close games up to this point. They've basically been rotating in guys off the street in the secondary and yet they're somehow not last in every passing defense category.
 
Prater ain?t been all that in the last several games, actually. At least from a FF standpoint. Which is irrelevant to this discussion, so what the OP said.
 
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I don't think there's much to take away from this season coaching-wise. Lack of talent and injuries, add in roster overturn and lack of cohesion, this was going to be an extremely difficult task to remain competitive. It would probably be difficult to prove they planned on tanking, but I don't think they had winning in mind when it came to constructing this roster. Was Goff a bad gamble? or did Holmes know exactly what he was getting? Maybe it's just my conspiracy-brained denial, but it seems to me that they had no intention of putting Goff in a position to succeed, suffer through the two years and get your extra 1st round pick.

I'm honestly shocked that they've had as many close games up to this point. They've basically been rotating in guys off the street in the secondary and yet they're somehow not last in every passing defense category.

I think that is a very good take. Brad Holmes and Campbell flat out said they are building for the future and not 2022. They literally said sure we can go out and build a .500 roster in 2022, but at what cost? They want to build a team the right way and turn it into a contender year after year. Will that actually happen? who knows, but it is 100% the right path to take.

?Of course I want to win now,? Campbell said, via ProFootballTalk. ?Who doesn?t want to win now? And we?ll do whatever we can to win now, but not to sacrifice what we can become long term. I look at things two years out ? I don?t look at them right now. I want to know where we can be two years from now, even possibly three years from now. And I know that?s crazy in this business, but if you want to have long-term success, something you can sustain, something where we can create a winner here in the [NFC] North for a long period of time, you have to build it properly. You have to have building blocks. You have to have a core.?

But Campbell also made it clear that he?s not going to go all-in on the 2021 NFL season. He pointed out that he would be doing the fans ?a disservice? if they sacrifice 2022 and 2023 in an effort to win in 2021.

?I think we do ourselves a disservice and we do the fan base a disservice if we say we?re going all in, right now,? Campbell said. ?Because you know what happens? You?re going to stink in Year 2, Year 3. You?re not going to sustain.?
 
Had not seen that quote from DC before about going all in this season.

I do like that as the season has progressed players, particularly several guys brought in off the street, have shown growth.

And the coaching is not all DC. His assistants and the entire staff he brought in play a huge role in player development. Not one player has expressed a distaste for being in Detroit because the coaches have created a Player Positive environment. That is a complete 180 from Patricia who had players saying the environment was awful from the jump.

If Lions had brought in Holmes and DC instead of Quinn and Patricia, they would be a playoff team today with the roster that existed at that time and players being coached up instead of down. Yes, DC would still have made rookie coaching mistakes his first year, and several his second. Every coach has questionable moments. But I firmly believe that roster with different draft picks and FA decisions (including players WANTING to play for DC coming here instead of staying the fuck away from Patricia), yeah... I'm certain the Lions would be a playoff team today.
 
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