Trump or Bush, hypothetical

[Gulo Blue]

This is for the board liberals. A question about how bad you think Trump will really be. Would you, if it were your call, go with President Trump or give G. W. Bush 4 more years with the certainty that there would be another Iraq War-scale military engagement (no Afghanistan)?

 

[tinselwolverine]

This is for the board liberals. A question about how bad you think Trump will really be. Would you, if it were your call, go with President Trump or give G. W. Bush 4 more years with the certainty that there would be another Iraq War-scale military engagement (no Afghanistan)?

I imagine I don't count as a board liberal but I'm going to weigh on this anyway.

Obviously given the certainty of something horrible happening under Bush and with no such certainty under Trump, the answer has to be Trump.

 

[TheVictors]

My friend's Dad was the head of NAPO - National Assoc of Police Officers - after retiring from the Detroit PD and moving to DC. He worked with Reagan, Bush Sr and Clinton and said of the three ...

Reagan was an idiot - great public speaker, but not truly intelligent - but surrounded himself with brilliant advisors.

Bush Sr was quite smart - had been head of CIA and truly smart, but unimpressive speaker - but surrounded himself with idiot advisors.

Clinton was by far the smartest of the three and could take a joke on the golf course ...

I would say Trump is an idiot who is surrounding himself with other idiots - nobody with much if any diplomatic or international experience - and to that end, Dubya would be a known and more of the same ...advisors from the neocon branch of the party.


I guess I'd agree with Tinsel under the specific scenario of the question, but looking back, Dubya seems hugely more qualified than Trump and what Trump doesn't seem to know ...is shocking for a POTUS-elect.

 

[Gulo Blue]

Yeah. I guess that's a no-brainer.

How about Trump vs. G. W. Bush, no additional conditions? Just as is.

Vic picks Bush. I would too. Maybe that's too easy a question too.

How about Palin? I'm trying to find a hypothetical that splits the vote.

 

[Gulo Blue]

Clinton was by far the smartest of the three and could take a joke on the golf course ...

Greenspan said that of the Presidents he worked with Nixon and Clinton were the smartest, but Nixon was scary. He said Ford was the most normal.

 

[TheVictors]

Greenspan said that of the Presidents he worked with Nixon and Clinton were the smartest, but Nixon was scary. He said Ford was the most normal.

Yeah, I think that's The Simpsons take when they had different Presidents move in next door.

Ford was sort of the "Homer Simpson" of Presidents ...liked football and nachos.

 

[Michchamp]

This is for the board liberals. A question about how bad you think Trump will really be. Would you, if it were your call, go with President Trump or give G. W. Bush 4 more years with the certainty that there would be another Iraq War-scale military engagement (no Afghanistan)?

Wow.

How many people died in Iraq? How many more were permanently wounded, damaged, or orphaned? How many more lives were destroyed through violence and torture, some of which was committed by our own troops? War is hell...

And beyond the physical human carnage, we still don't know how much it cost... we're still paying for it in so many ways: politically, the loss of national prestige and respect, loss of any moral high ground we occupied after 9/11, veterans' care and related issues, and the volatility in the region we created.

The American officials who created this debacle or oversaw it on the ground are still in good standing in Wash DC, and some of them still hold influential posts in "think tanks" or have been considered or nominated for Trump's cabinet. Gen. Flynn's views are quite possibly more extreme than anyone in Bush's cabinet. And by some accounts, Mattis' conduct during the seige of Fallujah was reprehensible.

I really don't have any basis for believing the political will to stop another Iraq - or worse - from happening under Trump's watch exists.

So I decline to answer this question.

 

[tomdalton22]

This is for the board liberals. A question about how bad you think Trump will really be. Would you, if it were your call, go with President Trump or give G. W. Bush 4 more years with the certainty that there would be another Iraq War-scale military engagement (no Afghanistan)?

This is almost as difficult as choosing between Hillary and Trump

 

[Gulo Blue]

Wow.

How many people died in Iraq? How many more were permanently wounded, damaged, or orphaned? How many more lives were destroyed through violence and torture, some of which was committed by our own troops? War is hell...

That was actually my initial thought, the negative reaction is so strong now, do people think Trump will get us into a worse conflict? It genuinely seems that there is more anti-Trump protesting now than there ever was anti-Iraq War protesting in the US.

According to this, the Iraq War had more support than Trump's current approval rating.

http://www.pewresearch.org/2008/03/19/public-attitudes-toward-the-war-in-iraq-20032008/

 

[zoombabyzoom]

Idk,

I'm on the boat that with either Bush or Trump there would be another large scale engagement. Bush for the same reasons, and Trump because he is a hot head...seems to be a racist, sexist. Not to mention Trump's cabinet may be more embarrassing than the idea he is POTUS.

 

[Michchamp]

That was actually my initial thought, the negative reaction is so strong now, do people think Trump will get us into a worse conflict? It genuinely seems that there is more anti-Trump protesting now than there ever was anti-Iraq War protesting in the US.

According to this, the Iraq War had more support than Trump's current approval rating.

http://www.pewresearch.org/2008/03/19/public-attitudes-toward-the-war-in-iraq-20032008/

yeah. Hell... I even thought the war was a more-or-less reasonable idea at the time. I had also voted for Bush in '00. The war, and its after effects was a major epiphany for me by the time '04 rolled around.

I think most Americans - with the last (major) war we remembered being Iraq I - had "forgotten the lessons of Vietnam" so to speak, and figured it wouldn't be that big of a deal.

I think these days, if they tried to do that again, there would be a lot more opposition. But of course, for that reason, the gov't/Pentagon might decide to do away with even the flimsy pretext of a public debate like we sort of had in '02-'03, and just launch an invasion. Wouldn't be the first time the US did that...

 

[Monster]

I'd take W. for the next 8 if it meant Trump didn't get 4. Sorry, but as bad as Bush was, he's a good man and surrounded himself with knowledgeable people. Trump is a childish buffoon that can't even handle SNL or simple, legitimate questions without pissing all over something. He's put people around him that are similar or worse and has nominated people that oppose the very positions that they're up for. Think W's wars were bad? If Trump keeps insulting everyone and pushing as hard as he has, Afghanistan and Iraq are going to look like Disneyland trips by the time he's done.

Trump cries when SNL mocks him. What do you think he'll do when Kim Jung Fatass calls him a tall oompa loompa?

When it rains, it golden showers.

 

[Michchamp]

... Sorry, but as bad as Bush was, he's a good man and surrounded himself with knowledgeable people. ...

While I get what you're trying to say, but this statement by itself is almost totally false.

The "knowledgeable people" were more or less pushed out (e.g. his 1st Treas secretary Paul O'Neill) or marginalized and replaced within the first couple years of his administration, once they refused to go along with the neo-con mindset and policy. almost no dissent was tolerated.

His AG went from John Ashcroft (hardly considered a great mind, but sure, at least "knowledgeable" sort of) to Alberto Gonzales...

 

[Gulo Blue]

Afghanistan and Iraq are going to look like Disneyland trips by the time he's done.

If this is true, we need more protesting.

 

[Gulo Blue]

While I get what you're trying to say, but this statement by itself is almost totally false.

Well...knowledgeable by comparison to Trump appointments. For some positions, it seems as though Trump is picking whoever has said the dumbest thing with regard to the office. Want to shut down the DOE? Ok, you're in charge now.

 

[Monster]

Well...knowledgeable by comparison to Trump appointments. For some positions, it seems as though Trump is picking whoever has said the dumbest thing with regard to the office. Want to shut down the DOE? Ok, you're in charge now.

This.

 

[TheVictors]

Well...knowledgeable by comparison to Trump appointments. For some positions, it seems as though Trump is picking whoever has said the dumbest thing with regard to the office. Want to shut down the DOE? Ok, you're in charge now.

I think Dubya surrounded himself by old school cronies and tried to continue his Dad's legacy/avenge the Iraq war ...the neocon movement, Cheney and Karl Rove brought a new twist but it was a known..

What we are embarking on now is the unknown.

And Omarosa?! Fucking seriously....?

 

[tinselwolverine]

And Omarosa?! Fucking seriously....?

Sounds like a Media/public relations kind of gig.

She had actually work in the White House before, during the Clinton administration, for the office of vice president Al Gore.

 

[TheVictors]

Sounds like a Media/public relations kind of gig.

She had actually work in the White House before, during the Clinton administration, for the office of vice president Al Gore.

Well, if we're appointing The Apprentice contestants, I nominate my South Quad '91 dormmate, who worked in the cafeteria and who it took a few episodes for me to remember how I knew her ...Liz!

[always wondered what she would say, given all the sexual misconduct/assault talk around Trump]

 

[Spartanmack]

I think Dubya surrounded himself by old school cronies and tried to continue his Dad's legacy/avenge the Iraq war ...the neocon movement, Cheney and Karl Rove brought a new twist but it was a known..

What we are embarking on now is the unknown.

And Omarosa?! Fucking seriously....?

She's already worked in the White House - for Al Gore during the Clinton years. Maybe if she was a little heavier and more "ambitious" (i.e. willing to show she knows her way around a cigar) she could have gotten a job working for Bill. Also, she was a vocal Barack Obama supporter and initially endorsed Hillary for President back in 2014. And, she's still pretty hot so she's got that going for her...