Tigers vs. orioles ALDS Game 3 October 5

[xer0]

Does Kinsler know you have such a man crush on him?

Does Alice Avila know you have such a man crush on him?

 

[xer0]

Numbers mean absolutely nothing to you, don't they?

They mean alot, and they also show that Avila is hot garbage. Dude sucks the air out of the stadium more than any player on the Tigers.

 

[Rebbiv]

Does Alice Avila know you have such a man crush on him?

Great come back

 

[spockmaster]

They mean alot, and they also show that Avila is hot garbage. Dude sucks the air out of the stadium more than any player on the Tigers.

Bullshit. Every stat I threw at you tonight showed he was an average/bit below average offense for a catcher and well above average for defense. You just hate him so much that you refuse to see it.

You're making excuses for Kinsler's abysmal 2nd half offensively, but say Avila sucks because his offense isnt good enough? Do you want to know who between the two of them had the better offensive 2nd half? Hint: it wasn't Kinsler.

Kinsler's 2nd half was worse offensively than Avila's 2nd half (and worse than Avila's season numbers for EVERY season of his career), and both played great defense, yet you love Kinsler and hate Avila.

Hypocrite.

 

[xer0]

Great come back

It didn't need to be a 'great' comeback, just an applicable one.

 

[Rebbiv]

Bullshit. Every stat I threw at you tonight showed he was an average/bit below average offense for a catcher and well above average for defense. You just hate him so much that you refuse to see it.

You're making excuses for Kinsler's abysmal 2nd half offensively, but say Avila sucks because his offense isnt good enough? Do you want to know who between the two of them had the better offensive 2nd half? Hint: it wasn't Kinsler.

Kinsler's 2nd half was worse offensively than Avila's 2nd half (and worse than Avila's season numbers for EVERY season of his career), and both played great defense, yet you love Kinsler and hate Avila.

Hypocrite.

He is.

 

[Thundercats]

Kinsler is closer a $16 million a year player than Prince Fielder is to a $24 million a year player.. so I consider that a good deal. I think there would be a team desperate enough for 2nd baseman that they'd take him for prospects, granted we would probably have to pay a part of Kinsler's contract. I think we have to deal Price this offseason. He would net us a huge return from a contender like Boston or the Dodgers. I have a man crush on Joc Pederson in LA. I'd trade Price straight up for him.. I think he's going to be a huge superstar like Trout.

 

[spockmaster]

I wanna make this clear too: I don't hate Kinsler. I think he costs too much and he should be a mid-bottom order hitter (NOT LEADOFF, BRAD), but he has a lot of value on defense and 2B is another position where offense isnt required as long as you play really good defense. I also prefer him to Fielder.

 

[xer0]

Bullshit. Every stat I threw at you tonight showed he was an average/bit below average offense for a catcher and well above average for defense. You just hate him so much that you refuse to see it.

You're making excuses for Kinsler's abysmal 2nd half offensively, but say Avila sucks because his offense isnt good enough? Do you want to know who between the two of them had the better offensive 2nd half? Hint: it wasn't Kinsler.

Kinsler's 2nd half was worse offensively than Avila's 2nd half (and worse than Avila's season numbers for EVERY season of his career), and both played great defense, yet you love Kinsler and hate Avila.

Hypocrite.

He's clearly below average and showed signs of getting worse, not better. Dude swings and misses at pitches right down the heart of the plate, ROUTINELY. he sucks. he's ok defensively but not as good as some claim he is, it's a copout to deflect from his PUTRID hitting.

Where did I make an excuse?? I CLEARLY stated that Kinsler had an atrocious 2nd half, that's not excusing anything, and he did still play hard every night and played spectacular defense.

Avila and Kinsler both had a .627 OPS after the break, and so what? the entire season counts last I checked, and Kinsler had a far more productive season offensively to Avila, Kinsler hits LHP and RHP pretty equally, Avila is a complete disaster vs ANY LHP. .589 OPS doesn't lie.

I hate how he gets glorified just for taking Walks, that's literally the only thing keeping him in the lineup and all it accounts for is a single base.

You're essentially accusing me of what you're doing with AA.

 

[Thundercats]

Mike Sciosca may be fired after tonight's game.. I'd gladly replace Brad with him.

 

[xer0]

He is.

 

[spockmaster]

He's clearly below average and showed signs of getting worse, not better. Dude swings and misses at pitches right down the heart of the plate, ROUTINELY. he sucks. he's ok defensively but not as good as some claim he is, it's a copout to deflect from his PUTRID hitting.

Where did I make an excuse?? I CLEARLY stated that Kinsler had an atrocious 2nd half, that's not excusing anything, and he did still play hard every night and played spectacular defense.

Avila and Kinsler both had a .627 OPS after the break, and so what? the entire season counts last I checked, and Kinsler had a far more productive season offensively to Avila, Kinsler hits LHP and RHP pretty equally, Avila is a complete disaster vs ANY LHP. .589 OPS doesn't lie.

I hate how he gets glorified just for taking Walks, that's literally the only thing keeping him in the lineup and all it accounts for is a single base.

You're essentially accusing me of what you're doing with AA.

Except that I have the actual numbers on my side for my argument: that Avila is a good starter vs RHP due to his defense and ability to hit them (career .792 OPS vs RHP, which is far from putrid.)

He DOES blow vs LHP, always has. Not arguing he doesn't, never have either, given that I've been calling for McCann to platoon with him for most of the year. Frankly, we should always have had a platoon partner for him and if McCann isnt his partner next year (assuming he doesnt retire due to concussions), DD should be punched in the face.


Plus, you still havent shown me how you think his defense is overrated, all you've said is you think it is, which isn't good enough.

 

[tigermud]

Looks like the Angels are about to get swept tonight to

 

[Thundercats]

Looks like the Angels are about to get swept tonight to

Yup. Really hoping we fire Brad and the Angels fire Mike S. I'd love to have him as manager.

 

[spockmaster]

All there is to do now is hope for an Orioles-Dodgers World Series, because I'd rather cancel it than see KC, StL, or SF win.

 

[xer0]

Except that I have the actual numbers on my side for my argument: that Avila is a good starter vs RHP due to his defense and ability to hit them (career .792 OPS vs RHP, which is far from putrid.)

He DOES blow vs LHP, always has. Not arguing he doesn't, never have either, given that I've been calling for McCann to platoon with him for most of the year. Frankly, we should always have had a platoon partner for him and if McCann isnt his partner next year (assuming he doesnt retire due to concussions), DD should be punched in the face.


Plus, you still havent shown me how you think his defense is overrated, all you've said is you think it is, which isn't good enough.

.720 OPS vs RHP this year with 109 of his SO's came from RHP, that's not progress, that's regression. With him constantly taking beatings behind the plate/concussion issues I don't see this being any different going forward, and we could even see even more of a regression next season.

 

[Rebbiv]

Kinsler is closer a $16 million a year player than Prince Fielder is to a $24 million a year player.. so I consider that a good deal. I think there would be a team desperate enough for 2nd baseman that they'd take him for prospects, granted we would probably have to pay a part of Kinsler's contract. I think we have to deal Price this offseason. He would net us a huge return from a contender like Boston or the Dodgers. I have a man crush on Joc Pederson in LA. I'd trade Price straight up for him.. I think he's going to be a huge superstar like Trout.

I will disagree. Fielder, when healthy, was a top 10 1B during the regular season, even in his off year, but he is being paid as a Top5. I have never said Fielder wasn't overpaid. I wouldn't put Kinlser in the top 10 and he certainly is overpaid. Meaning he is getting Top 5 pay.

Fielder
2013 = 11th in OPS (12th Away OPS)
2012 = 2nd in OPS (6th Away OPS)
2011 = 2nd in OPS (6th Away OPS)
2010 = 6th in OPS (13th Away OPS)

2011-2013 MLB 1B = Fielder 25th of 32 1B in UZR/150 -3.1

Kinsler
2014 = 10th in OPS (12th in Away OPS)
2013 = 10th in OPS (11th in Away OPS)
2012 = 9th in OPS (25th in Away OPS)
2011 = 3rd in OPS (15th in Away OPS)

2012-2014 MLB 2B = Kinsler 12th of 26 2B in UZR/150 4.1 (Infante 13th at 3.7)

Fielder being 3.1 runs below average is not that bad of defense. And Kinsler being 4.1 runs above average on defense is not that great. Certainly not Gold Glove.

Playoff stats are such small sample rates, so adding that to the argument is misleading. Is Clayton Kershaw an unwanted player because he has miserable playoff stats?

It would take more than Price to get Pederson.

 

[firehim]

Mike Sciosca may be fired after tonight's game.. I'd gladly replace Brad with him.

Not me. Scioscia has had the best players in baseball and he has finished in 3rd place three out of the last 5 years. He is run crazy.

 

[spockmaster]

.720 OPS vs RHP this year with 109 of his SO's came from RHP, that's not progress, that's regression. With him constantly taking beatings behind the plate/concussion issues I don't see this being any different going forward, and we could even see even more of a regression next season.

It could be that you're right, but it also could be that he bounces back if he gets a bit less playing time (more consistent days off, and probably less of a beating playing less) and sees less LHP, leaving him to concentrate on hitting righties.


Frankly though, this is all moot, since I now think he should retire to save his health. He's had 3 concussions/injuries since September 1st alone, let alone the beating he normally takes and the other concussions he's had. If the NFL has taught us one thing, its that you don't mess with your long-term health for a game when concussions are involved.

 

[spockmaster]

Not me. Scioscia has had the best players in baseball and he has finished in 3rd place three out of the last 5 years. He is run crazy.

Agree. Scioscia is wildy overrated as a manager.