Final Big Ten East Power Rankings

[Sbee]

I quoted the question I was responding to. It wrecks the flow to have a question, then a paragraph, then the answer to that question.

Besides, a detailed discussion of what happened doesn't impact my assertion about that opinion being held outside of Michigan fandom. You could convince me that MSU wasn't lucky, and that wouldn't change what I think other people are saying about them.

I'd say those people are uniformed, I don't mind engaging in this discussion and educating them. I'm not on a pro MSU crusade or anything but I just enjoy the debate about MSU sports.

If I were making claims about Michigan football that you thought were false I'd assume you'd engage and try to prove otherwise. If you didn't think it was worth your time that's fine but I wouldn't fault you for going back and forth.

The reason I'm singling Dubbsco out is that I continue to provide evidence that MSU wasn't in fact a simply lucky team but he refuses to hear it since he sees what he believes, he doesn't believe what he sees

 

[Sbee]

I think it's fair to compare our behavior in 2011. We were lucky and we knew it and admitted it. But that's how it seemed on our board. I wonder if there were Michigan posters on Spartan or Buckeye boards trying to argue that we weren't lucky?

Edit: We were lucky, we knew it, but we were still happy and didn't care that everyone knew we were lucky.

It's fair to compare the behavior I guess but I don't think the seasons played out the same way. that Michigan team wasn't riddled with major injuries as I recall. they got a few gifts in the ND game but capitalized on them (execution), they also lucked out a little bit that OSU was awful that year (so did we).

MSU did kind of get screwed the previous year, sharing a big ten title with OSU who used ineligible players, costing us a trip to the rose bowl. I could on about that one but I'll spare you


I will say that the prior Michigan team (RR's last) had horrible luck with injuries and all of the good bounces in the world couldn't overcome those.

 

[tinselwolverine]

I can't believe this thread has gone this long. It really should be easy to look at michchamp's rankings and just agree. What is there to discuss?

I have disputed neither the accuracy nor the legitimacy of the rankings.

 

[Gulo Blue]

It's fair to compare the behavior I guess but I don't think the seasons played out the same way. that Michigan team wasn't riddled with major injuries as I recall. they got a few gifts in the ND game but capitalized on them (execution), they also lucked out a little bit that OSU was awful that year (so did we).

MSU did kind of get screwed the previous year, sharing a big ten title with OSU who used ineligible players, costing us a trip to the rose bowl. I could on about that one but I'll spare you


I will say that the prior Michigan team (RR's last) had horrible luck with injuries and all of the good bounces in the world couldn't overcome those.

http://www.annarbor.com/sports/um-f...injuries-mount-ahead-of-tough-4-game-stretch/

 

[hungry]

I can't believe this thread has gone this long. It really should be easy to look at michchamp's rankings and just agree. What is there to discuss?

This is what i've been saying all along. It's obvious to everyone that MSU just upset Michigan and that happens in a long season sometimes. Sometimes a lesser team rises up and beats a better team. That is what an upset is. That upset allowed MSU to qualify for the title game against an unproven Iowa team (look at their schedule, they beat no one.) That Iowa team was thoroughly exposed in their bowl game. If not for that flukey punt-snap muff, fumble, return for a td, MSU would've lost to Michigan and would not have qualified for the championship game. I don't see how that can be argued.

Sure, MSU upset Michigan and won the big 10 title. Were they obviously the better team? I don't think so.

On another note,something that is interesting that i noticed in a thread on mgoblog is that Rudock finished 2nd in passer efficiency rating. Cook was not first. I tried to copy and paste it, but it wouldn't let me.

 

[hungry]

if you're just looking at numbers i'd agree with you, winning a ton of close games isn't sustainable, you can't play tight games all the time and come out ahead more than 50% of the time with all things being equal. My point is that those numbers are thrown off due to MSU's injuries, we went through a stretch from the CMU game until Nebraska where we were playing with a skeleton crew, with major injuries to Ed Davis, Vayante Copeland, Jack Conklin, Kodi Kieler, Dennis Finley, LJ Scott, Macgarret Kings, Madre London, Josiah Price, Jack Allen, RJ Williamson, Darian Hicks, and then Connor Cook for the most important game of the year, just to top it all off. I'm not including special teams players or guys who played sparingly, we lost a few other guys on the two deep that weren't starters, not worried about them. Finley wasn't a starter but he was replacing a starter so his injury forced us even further down the depth chart.

These injuries made a number of games (CMU, Purdue, Rutgers, Michigan, Indiana, Nebraska) closer than they should be. The results of those games skew the computer models that you cite.

If you want to argue that MSU was lucky with the injury bug in 2013 and 2014 I'll agree with you, I also think we made up for it in spades this year.

Yet you've been trying to argue that we're just biased for Michigan and against MSU and that is why we can't see your side of the story, but multiple, multiple, non-Michigan media is saying the exact same thing.

 

[Sbee]

This is what i've been saying all along. It's obvious to everyone that MSU just upset Michigan and that happens in a long season sometimes. Sometimes a lesser team rises up and beats a better team. That is what an upset is. That upset allowed MSU to qualify for the title game against an unproven Iowa team (look at their schedule, they beat no one.) That Iowa team was thoroughly exposed in their bowl game. If not for that flukey punt-snap muff, fumble, return for a td, MSU would've lost to Michigan and would not have qualified for the championship game. I don't see how that can be argued.

Sure, MSU upset Michigan and won the big 10 title. Were they obviously the better team? I don't think so.

On another note,something that is interesting that i noticed in a thread on mgoblog is that Rudock finished 2nd in passer efficiency rating. Cook was not first. I tried to copy and paste it, but it wouldn't let me.

I think it's pretty funny that you call Iowa unproven, who the hell did Michigan beat this year? Northwestern at home? Iowa has a much better resume than Michigan

If you're going to argue that Michigan was a better team than our Spartans this year, I don't know what to tell you. We have a championship trophy, you guys haven't won a championship in over 10 years. We beat you, beat OSU, beat Iowa, made the CFP. If you want to say you're a better team than MSU, beat us, if you don't, keep your mouth shut or you sound pretty pathetic. I think you might just be messing with me by saying that UM was the better team, by every objective measure we were better. You might be that biased against your school that you think that, I'm not sure.

You might have gotten lucky to get us at our weakest point of the season and got to play in AA, still couldn't win. Also, since you're so fixated on that one play in AA. Isn't properly executing a punt part of a football game? did our punter fumble snaps? you did get very lucky when Peppers fumbled a punt and the ball bounced right to another Michigan player, that was a great bounce for you guys. I guess your luck ran out in the last 10 seconds

 

[zyxt9]

Can someone bump the needle? Better yet, can we just toss this broken record in the garbage already? It was funny before, but as usual, sbee just devolves it into a dull blah.

Sbee and LKP should be forced into a secluded forum where they can rehash their BS ad nauseum

 

[tigersofjustice]

What the heck happened to this thread? Wow.

 

[hungry]

I think it's pretty funny that you call Iowa unproven, who the hell did Michigan beat this year? Northwestern at home? Iowa has a much better resume than Michigan

If you're going to argue that Michigan was a better team than our Spartans this year, I don't know what to tell you. We have a championship trophy, you guys haven't won a championship in over 10 years. We beat you, beat OSU, beat Iowa, made the CFP. If you want to say you're a better team than MSU, beat us, if you don't, keep your mouth shut or you sound pretty pathetic. I think you might just be messing with me by saying that UM was the better team, by every objective measure we were better. You might be that biased against your school that you think that, I'm not sure.

You might have gotten lucky to get us at our weakest point of the season and got to play in AA, still couldn't win. Also, since you're so fixated on that one play in AA. Isn't properly executing a punt part of a football game? did our punter fumble snaps? you did get very lucky when Peppers fumbled a punt and the ball bounced right to another Michigan player, that was a great bounce for you guys. I guess your luck ran out in the last 10 seconds

Michigan beat Florida 41-7, since you asked who has Michigan beaten?

 

[tinselwolverine]

I think you might just be messing with me by saying that UM was the better team...

UM is the better team.

Getting to mess with you by saying it is just a bonus.

 

[Gulo Blue]

UM is the better team.

Getting to mess with you by saying it is just a bonus.

Of course it is.

Nowhere is there a better university, in any way, than this Michigan of ours. Endquote.

 

[Sbee]

Michigan beat Florida 41-7, since you asked who has Michigan beaten?

that florida team was playing really well toward the end of the seasons with wins over, well, wait, nobody? they lost their last 3 games, last win was over FAU, in overtime.

Your points are garbage, just typical bravado.

 

[hungry]

from another board I read:

"I'm a really big Msu fan and I agree with this. We got really lucky this year and it showed. Michigan wore their shoes out this year greatly with their new coach and will be a dangerous opponent next year along with OSU. Next year I see Michigan in first following OSU and Msu. Who knows. I really do hope Wisconsin, Nebraska and Northwestern show up with great wins also"

 

[dubbsco]

Sbee's the only one who fails to acknowledge the luck and good breaks. Ironic for someone saying that I am the one saying MSU only got through with good fortune (which I didn't).

Take the earmuffs off, pat MSU on the back for doing well, but admit there were multiple breaks that got you guys through. And we can put the wrap on this thread.

 

[Sbee]

from another board I read:

"I'm a really big Msu fan and I agree with this. We got really lucky this year and it showed. Michigan wore their shoes out this year greatly with their new coach and will be a dangerous opponent next year along with OSU. Next year I see Michigan in first following OSU and Msu. Who knows. I really do hope Wisconsin, Nebraska and Northwestern show up with great wins also"

Oh my god, an anecdote from a MSU fan on a message board! You just laid it down, did you give yourself a pat on the back after posting that, was that like, your big finish?

Every year the narrative is about how Michigan is going to get so much better and MSU is going to get so much worse, I hear it over and over again. So what if one MSU fan buys it and pisses his pants?

Do I see Michigan being an improved team going forward? Yes, of course, it would be dumb to deny that, they were the laughing stock of college football in 2014, they won't suck forever. I expect Michigan to be a competitive game and they will be a pain in the ass for years to come. If Harbaugh lives up to expectations I'd expect a 50/50 game.

It will be tough for MSU to improve on 12-2 and a big ten title, there isn't much room to improve, but we should be good again. We also have our tough conference games at home next year. Michigan might win more games, maybe not. they play absolutely nobody in the non conference, backloaded schedule with 3 or 4 games they could lose. They might improve on this year, could take a step back.

I expect our games to be competitive for years, but these predictions of the 80's coming back are pure fantasy.

 

[Sbee]

Sbee's the only one who fails to acknowledge the luck and good breaks. Ironic for someone saying that I am the one saying MSU only got through with good fortune (which I didn't).

Take the earmuffs off, pat MSU on the back for doing well, but admit there were multiple breaks that got you guys through. And we can put the wrap on this thread.

Baby Dubbsco, you didn't say that MSU only had good fortune, you just don't admit that we had a number of bad breaks as well. I admit there were some good breaks but there were also a lot of bad ones. I'm shocked we ended up 12-2 with all of the injuries we had, hard to believe really.

I've acknowledged the good breaks multiple times, but I also recognize the bad ones. That's where we differ, you can't deal with the fact that we really earned it, it has to be luck, right? they simply can't be that good, there has to be some kind of rationalization to help little Dubsco deal with it.

Also, you can put a wrap on the thread for yourself at any time by not responding. Are you really mad you're not getting the last word in? Grow up baby boy, either that or run to the mods to delete the thread, it's your go to move.

 

[Gulo Blue]

Oh my god, an anecdote from a MSU fan on a message board! You just laid it down, did you give yourself a pat on the back after posting that, was that like, your big finish?

Every year the narrative is about how Michigan is going to get so much better and MSU is going to get so much worse, I hear it over and over again. So what if one MSU fan buys it and pisses his pants?

Do I see Michigan being an improved team going forward? Yes, of course, it would be dumb to deny that, they were the laughing stock of college football in 2014, they won't suck forever. I expect Michigan to be a competitive game and they will be a pain in the ass for years to come. If Harbaugh lives up to expectations I'd expect a 50/50 game.

It will be tough for MSU to improve on 12-2 and a big ten title, there isn't much room to improve, but we should be good again. We also have our tough conference games at home next year. Michigan might win more games, maybe not. they play absolutely nobody in the non conference, backloaded schedule with 3 or 4 games they could lose. They might improve on this year, could take a step back.

I expect our games to be competitive for years, but these predictions of the 80's coming back are pure fantasy.

You complain about the Michigan getting better/MSU getting worse narrative, but then in the next paragraph you say you agree with the Michigan getting better half of it.

So really, you just disagree with the idea that MSU will decline, which isn't what this thread is about.

 

[hungry]

Oh my god, an anecdote from a MSU fan on a message board! You just laid it down, did you give yourself a pat on the back after posting that, was that like, your big finish?

Every year the narrative is about how Michigan is going to get so much better and MSU is going to get so much worse, I hear it over and over again. So what if one MSU fan buys it and pisses his pants?

Do I see Michigan being an improved team going forward? Yes, of course, it would be dumb to deny that, they were the laughing stock of college football in 2014, they won't suck forever. I expect Michigan to be a competitive game and they will be a pain in the ass for years to come. If Harbaugh lives up to expectations I'd expect a 50/50 game.

It will be tough for MSU to improve on 12-2 and a big ten title, there isn't much room to improve, but we should be good again. We also have our tough conference games at home next year. Michigan might win more games, maybe not. they play absolutely nobody in the non conference, backloaded schedule with 3 or 4 games they could lose. They might improve on this year, could take a step back.

I expect our games to be competitive for years, but these predictions of the 80's coming back are pure fantasy.

Was referring more to his opening statement, than any of the rest.

"I'm a really big Msu fan and I agree with this. We got really lucky this year and it showed. "

 

[Sbee]

You complain about the Michigan getting better/MSU getting worse narrative, but then in the next paragraph you say you agree with the Michigan getting better half of it.

So really, you just disagree with the idea that MSU will decline, which isn't what this thread is about.

again, nuance. you like to try to paint it as black and white but you don't acknowledge the sentiment, intentionally or not.

Michigan will be better than the Hoke/RR years, to think they're going to miss bowls half of the time is dumb. That's different than improving on 10 wins, that may or may not happen next year, not a given as some seem to think.