Trades

[SouthOfMackinac]

Well the Red Sox appear to be sellers....but what are they going to want for Uehara?

I don't like giving up anything big for a half season rental of a 1 inning guy, no matter how good he is.

J Veras relieved M Scherzer.
J Iglesias at shortstop.
S Drew grounded out to shortstop.
W Middlebrooks doubled to left.
D Smyly relieved J Veras.
J Ellsbury walked.
A Alburquerque relieved D Smyly.
S Victorino struck out swinging.
D Pedroia singled to right, W Middlebrooks to third, J Ellsbury to second.
J Benoit relieved A Alburquerque.
D Ortiz homered to right (387 feet), W Middlebrooks, J Ellsbury and D Pedroia scored.


If we think our farm is full of duds why not sell it to get someone so we don't have to bring in a fuckstick like Veras in the 8th? I don't want to go in to October depending on Al Al.

 

[Mitchrapp]

AL isn't going to win or lose a WS for us..most RP have little impact on wins and losses.

 

[SouthOfMackinac]

AL isn't going to win or lose a WS for us..most RP have little impact on wins and losses.

Not in October. You can believe what you like of course but stating it as though it is fact is an error.

All pitchers have a major impact on wins and losses. 1st inning until the last out.

 

[Mitchrapp]

I bet to differ. If a RP comes in and gives up 2 runs when the team is losing by eight..it means little. RP usually have little impact..

 

[SouthOfMackinac]

I bet to differ. If a RP comes in and gives up 2 runs when the team is losing by eight..it means little. RP usually have little impact..

Because no team has ever lost an eight run lead.

I'm talking about October and the playoffs where runs are at a premium and the games are tight. I think you know that but you like to go off-topic to prove a point.

You can believe they have little impact. I will believe you are wrong. Next topic.

 

[Mitchrapp]

Because no team has ever lost an eight run lead.

I'm talking about October and the playoffs where runs are at a premium and the games are tight. I think you know that but you like to go off-topic to prove a point.

You can believe they have little impact. I will believe you are wrong. Next topic.

Great thing about a forum. That's why RP generally are throw ins or signed as free agents. Not many times you see a RP as the main focus of a trade..as with the old SNL skit..they're not worthy.

 

[UMRules06]

The bullpen cost the Tigers two games in last years ALCS. So while obviously relievers have less impact than starting pitchers, they can still win or lose you a big game in a short term scenario. Boston's bullpen (with Uehara leading the way) shut our offense down in the late innings. The bullpens were, in my opinion, the difference in the series.

 

[SouthOfMackinac]

Great thing about a forum. That's why RP generally are throw ins or signed as free agents. Not many times you see a RP as the main focus of a trade..as with the old SNL skit..they're not worthy.

The great ones never get traded because they are too valuable. They also sign 10 and 12 million dollar a year contracts which is more than many starting positional players.

I think that's the key element you're missing in what I present. I am talking about a team heading to the WS with a gap in middle relief. It is the talk around baseball, every writer and media personality is saying the Tiger's Achille's heel is the bullpen. Just last night I heard the ESPN National radio guys doing the HR derby talking about that being the limiting factor.

Which brings me back to my next point of contention for the esteemed posters who disagree that you make a RP the focus of a trade and get the best one for this year's playoff run. Get a closer quality to pitch the 8th inning. He isn't on this roster today. Move Chamberlain to the 7th and you have a pen that you did everything you could to make strong.

Now some (it was said many) disagree with that philosophy. Like Mitch they say "RP doesn't impact a game enough to spend prospects." That comment obviously is incorrect when we look up again at the summary of last year's 8th inning of game 2, but that could be considered an outlier event so I won't harp on it too much.

If we can all agree the soft spot on this team is bullpen, and we can all agree the team lacks talent in the minors. Why would it make sense to try and get a position player and a RP who isn't going to be trusted in October?

To draw an analogy, it is akin to having five dollars and needing eggs. But no, I can't just buy eggs because they aren't important enough. I'll buy a steak even though I have all the steak I need because steaks are more important than eggs. I'll still get eggs but only if I buy steak also.

All of baseball (not speaking for you) believes this team needs another lights out reliever. They talk about it everyday. Why not just go get the best reliever you can? Why muddy the waters?

 

[SouthOfMackinac]

The bullpen cost the Tigers two games in last years ALCS. So while obviously relievers have less impact than starting pitchers, they can still win or lose you a big game in a short term scenario. Boston's bullpen (with Uehara leading the way) shut our offense down in the late innings. The bullpens were, in my opinion, the difference in the series.

Thank you. I was starting to feel a little off for seeing the same, even more off than usual.

The moment Uehara touched the mound I felt like the game was over. That sucked but it was cool in a way to watch a guy dominate like he did. I remember thinking "That must be fun to watch your closer go out and KNOW he's going to close it."

 

[SouthOfMackinac]

What would it take to get Andrew Miller?

http://www.fangraphs.com/statsplits.aspx?playerid=6785&position=P&season=2014

Free agent at the end of the year so Boston has little reason to hold onto him.

 

[Thumb]

J Veras relieved M Scherzer.
J Iglesias at shortstop.
S Drew grounded out to shortstop.
W Middlebrooks doubled to left.
D Smyly relieved J Veras.
J Ellsbury walked.
A Alburquerque relieved D Smyly.
S Victorino struck out swinging.
D Pedroia singled to right, W Middlebrooks to third, J Ellsbury to second.
J Benoit relieved A Alburquerque.
D Ortiz homered to right (387 feet), W Middlebrooks, J Ellsbury and D Pedroia scored.


If we think our farm is full of duds why not sell it to get someone so we don't have to bring in a fuckstick like Veras in the 8th? I don't want to go in to October depending on Al Al.

What was the point of bringing this up? Veras might have gotten out of the inning fine if we hadn't played musical relievers.

You're cherry-picking a single game and trying to blame guys who really weren't at fault. Both guys recorded an out and then got yanked the second they didn't get one, the problem in that game was not the relievers.

 

[Thumb]

The bullpen cost the Tigers two games in last years ALCS. So while obviously relievers have less impact than starting pitchers, they can still win or lose you a big game in a short term scenario. Boston's bullpen (with Uehara leading the way) shut our offense down in the late innings. The bullpens were, in my opinion, the difference in the series.

Wrong.

Game 2 was not Veras, Smyly, ABQ, or Benoit's fault.

It was the guy who kept swapping them out every 10 seconds.

Game 6 we scored 2 goddamn runs. And an error kept the inning going allowing Victorino to hit the GS.

It wasn't just the bullpen that shut us down either.

 

[SouthOfMackinac]

What was the point of bringing this up? Veras might have gotten out of the inning fine if we hadn't played musical relievers.

You're cherry-picking a single game and trying to blame guys who really weren't at fault. Both guys recorded an out and then got yanked the second they didn't get one, the problem in that game was not the relievers.

That's not a cherry-picked game. You know, as does the baseball world, that game was the turning point of the series. Just like Gibson's home run for the Dodgers.

Al Al should have started the inning but JL had Veras so he wanted to use him. I didn't trust Veras and Al Al wasn't good with inherited runners all season. I'll agree it was a managing issue but at the core was the talent of Veras or Al Al instead of Benoit in the 8th and another proven closer type the team needed in the 9th.

Benoit was and is one of the premier setup men in baseball. That is and has been a real thing for a few years now. The Tigers were chastised some when they signed Joaquin from Tampa Bay because it was seen as too much money for a setup guy. I loved it - remember how rough he was when he first got here? He figured it out in late May and was pretty sweet except for a spate of gopherballs now and again.

There is no game to close if you give it up in the 7th or 8th.

 

[SouthOfMackinac]

At the time I was most upset with Max because I thought he could have handled the 8th.

 

[Mitchrapp]

The bullpen cost the Tigers two games in last years ALCS. So while obviously relievers have less impact than starting pitchers, they can still win or lose you a big game in a short term scenario. Boston's bullpen (with Uehara leading the way) shut our offense down in the late innings. The bullpens were, in my opinion, the difference in the series.

Lack of offense was the biggest culprit. 18 runs in 6 games, or 11 in 5 of the games. Can't win with that output.

 

[gotime909]

Lack of offense was the biggest culprit. 18 runs in 6 games, or 11 in 5 of the games. Can't win with that output.

Runs are usually harder to come by in the playoffs. But you're right, we had too many guys struggle at the plate that series to blame a couple bad bullpen innings.

 

[Thumb]

Runs are usually harder to come by in the playoffs. But you're right, we had too many guys struggle at the plate that series to blame a couple bad bullpen innings.

Mostly with RISP. Too many LOB was our downfall.

 

[UMRules06]

Wrong.

Game 2 was not Veras, Smyly, ABQ, or Benoit's fault.

It was the guy who kept swapping them out every 10 seconds.

Game 6 we scored 2 goddamn runs. And an error kept the inning going allowing Victorino to hit the GS.

It wasn't just the bullpen that shut us down either.

I think the bullpen let the team down. They gave up runs, the Boston bullpen did not. In innings 7-9 the Tigers scored a grand total of 1 run for the entire series, while Boston scored 12. That speaks to how tremendous the Red Sox bullpen performed, and how much that swung the series. Both team got tremendous efforts from their starters outside of Peavy in game 4 as well.

Both teams struggled to score runs. It was the Tigers bullpen that blinked first in some of those close low scoring games. If the teams swapped bullpens before the series started, I dare say the Tigers win the series. You may disagree, but that is my opinion.

Also would Leyland have had to keep playing musical chairs in that dreadful inning in game 2 if we had a shutdown kind of guy that we had confidence in?

 

[gotime909]

I think the bullpen let the team down. They gave up runs, the Boston bullpen did not. In innings 7-9 the Tigers scored a grand total of 1 run for the entire series, while Boston scored 12. That speaks to how tremendous the Red Sox bullpen performed, and how much that swung the series. Both team got tremendous efforts from their starters outside of Peavy in game 4 as well.

Both teams struggled to score runs. It was the Tigers bullpen that blinked first in some of those close low scoring games. If the teams swapped bullpens before the series started, I dare say the Tigers win the series. You may disagree, but that is my opinion.

Also would Leyland have had to keep playing musical chairs in that dreadful inning in game 2 if we had a shutdown kind of guy that we had confidence in?

We new going in that Boston had a better BP. We come up with a couple timely hits and none of it matters. But I agree with SoMack's opinion about the BP this year. I'd like to see us go out and get an arm.

 

[UMRules06]

We new going in that Boston had a better BP. We come up with a couple timely hits and none of it matters. But I agree with SoMack's opinion about the BP this year. I'd like to see us go out and get an arm.

That's fine, but the fact remains the Tigers didn't come up with a few timely hits. Some people look at that as the Tigers hitters failing. I look at it more as the Boston pitchers succeeding. I just wish for once we didn't have to sweat out the late innings, especially in October.