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[gotime909]

That's fine, but the fact remains the Tigers didn't come up with a few timely hits. Some people look at that as the Tigers hitters failing. I look at it more as the Boston pitchers succeeding. I just wish for once we didn't have to sweat out the late innings, especially in October.

Let's hope this is the year we wont have to. :cheers:

 

[SouthOfMackinac]

I think the bullpen let the team down. They gave up runs, the Boston bullpen did not. In innings 7-9 the Tigers scored a grand total of 1 run for the entire series, while Boston scored 12. That speaks to how tremendous the Red Sox bullpen performed, and how much that swung the series. Both team got tremendous efforts from their starters outside of Peavy in game 4 as well.

Both teams struggled to score runs. It was the Tigers bullpen that blinked first in some of those close low scoring games. If the teams swapped bullpens before the series started, I dare say the Tigers win the series. You may disagree, but that is my opinion.

Also would Leyland have had to keep playing musical chairs in that dreadful inning in game 2 if we had a shutdown kind of guy that we had confidence in?

Wow man, well stated and I share the exact sentiments. Thank you.

Though I think Al Al deserved to start that inning as the setup man. He had been pitching well in previous games and was ready to go.

 

[spockmaster]

STOP TALKING ABOUT LAST YEARS ALCS SO I CAN KEEP BLOCKING IT FROM MY MEMORIES

*cries*

 

[SouthOfMackinac]

STOP TALKING ABOUT LAST YEARS ALCS SO I CAN KEEP BLOCKING IT FROM MY MEMORIES

*cries*

Exactly why we need to get Miller and Uehara!

 

[tomdalton22]

That's fine, but the fact remains the Tigers didn't come up with a few timely hits. Some people look at that as the Tigers hitters failing. I look at it more as the Boston pitchers succeeding. I just wish for once we didn't have to sweat out the late innings, especially in October.

It's funny...a lot of people on this board will tell you if the Tigers don't get hits it's because they sucked and not credit the pitching. If the Tigers pitcher only allows very few hits and shuts out the opponent the pitcher gets the credit and doesn't say that the opponents batters just sucked that night.

 

[Thumb]

It's funny...a lot of people on this board will tell you if the Tigers don't get hits it's because they sucked and not credit the pitching. If the Tigers pitcher only allows very few hits and shuts out the opponent the pitcher gets the credit and doesn't say that the opponents batters just sucked that night.

What people would those be Tom?

Boston's pitching did not really shut us down. If fact our pitching shut them down much better. We outhit Boston 50-39 in the ALCS. They outscored us 19-18. The fact is they hit much better with RISP. They didn't give AB's away.

While some credit goes to Boston's bullpen pitchers (they scored more late inning runs) it was a problem for the Tigers all year long scoring late.

 

[tomdalton22]

What people would those be Tom?

Boston's pitching did not really shut us down. If fact our pitching shut them down much better. We outhit Boston 50-39 in the ALCS. They outscored us 19-18. The fact is they hit much better with RISP. They didn't give AB's away.

While some credit goes to Boston's bullpen pitchers (they scored more late inning runs) it was a problem for the Tigers all year long scoring late.

Anyone who doesn't credit the opponent's pitchers and says it was the fault of the Tiger's hitters.

 

[tinselwolverine]

It's funny...a lot of people on this board will tell you if the Tigers don't get hits it's because they sucked and not credit the pitching. If the Tigers pitcher only allows very few hits and shuts out the opponent the pitcher gets the credit and doesn't say that the opponents batters just sucked that night.

That's probably how fans of most baseball teams look at it; not just on this board, I guess...

 

[UMRules06]

What people would those be Tom?

Boston's pitching did not really shut us down. If fact our pitching shut them down much better. We outhit Boston 50-39 in the ALCS. They outscored us 19-18. The fact is they hit much better with RISP. They didn't give AB's away.

While some credit goes to Boston's bullpen pitchers (they scored more late inning runs) it was a problem for the Tigers all year long scoring late.

Our starting pitching shut them down better than their starters did. That much is true. Sanchez and Scherzer both were flirting with no-hitters in the first two games at Fenway.

Detroit Starters: 39.1 IP, 27 H, 9 ER, 2.07 ERA, 55 Ks, 15 BB, 1.07 WHIP
Boston Starters: 32.0 IP, 34 H, 17 ER, 4.78 ERA, 26 Ks, 9 BB, 1.34 WHIP

Detroit Bullpen: 12.2 IP, 12 H, 7 ER, 4.97 ERA, 18 Ks, 3 BB, 1.23 WHIP
Boston Bullpen: 21.0 IP, 16 H, 1 ER, 0.43 ERA, 16 Ks, 9 BB, 1.19 WHIP

The question really becomes, who do you place the blame/credit for the late inning runs? Is it more Boston's hitters coming through with the "timely hit"? Or is it the Detroit bullpen failing to do it's job? On the flip side, the Tigers failing to produce late inning runs, was that a product of Detroit hitters failing, or the Boston bullpen doing it's job well?

Probably could argue about it until we're blue in the face. I just can't stand seeing all those late runs allowed, and just wish we didn't have to worry about that problem.

 

[Thumb]

the flip side, the Tigers failing to produce late inning runs, was that a product of Detroit hitters failing, or the Boston bullpen doing it's job well?

The Tigers had problems scoring late inning runs all year long. Not just against Boston.


I'd say it was a well known (posted on these boards hundreds of times) problem with last year's offense. Frankly I don't feel Bostons pitchers shut us down as much as we shut ourselves down. With the exception of Uehara.

 

[SouthOfMackinac]

Detroit Bullpen: 12.2 IP, 12 H, 7 ER, 4.97 ERA, 18 Ks, 3 BB, 1.23 WHIP
Boston Bullpen: 21.0 IP, 16 H, 1 ER, 0.43 ERA, 16 Ks, 9 BB, 1.19 WHIP

The 21 IP really jumps out at me. Their bullpen was the equivalent of more than two complete games worth of one run baseball.

Tigers didn't suck that bad against everyone else, no coincidence "their inability to hit" showed up against the best team in the AL. Boston's bullpen is STILL good this season and Detroit's is again one of the worst. There is a talent deficiency that needs to be addressed if Detroit is going to accomplish what Boston was able to do.

Detroit BP
The more I think about it the more I think Smyly might not be on the post-season roster. That frees up a valuable spot if it works out to be.

Nathan
Chamberlain
????
Al Al
Hardy
Coke

The Tigers are due for a young guy to go lights out in the postseason. I think Smith or Hardy could be that guy. Al Al has anxiety issues and no matter how well he pitches seems to lose it at the worst possible moment. I don't hate him but I don't trust him anymore than I trusted Veras last season (which was not at all).

They need one more closer so Chamberlain can become the 7th inning guy for the playoffs. I left Krol off the roster because I think Hardy will outperform him in the second half and leave them with no choice.

 

[Rebbiv]

The Tiger lack of consistent offense still boils down to their overall lack of plate discipline/working the count/driving the opposing starter's pitch count up.

Walk Rate

2014 AL AVG 13.2 PA/BB


2014 DET Walk Rates

A. Avila 5.6 PA/BB (8.2 PA/BB Career)

D. Kelly 10.7 PA/BB (14.1 PA/BB Career)

E. Suarez 11.4 PA/BB (10.9 PA/BB Career)

A. Jackson 11.5 PA/BB (11.9 PA/BB Career)

M. Cabrera 12.7 PA/BB (11.3 PA/BB Career)


A. Romine 13.1 PA/BB (14.4 PA/BB Career)

B. Holaday 14.5 PA/BB (16.6 PA/BB Career)

V. Martinez 16.4 PA/BB (12.4 PA/BB Career)

N. Castellanos 16.5 PA/BB (13.3 PA/BB Career Minors)

J.D. Martinez 17.1 PA/BB (15.9 PA/BB Career)

R. Davis 19.9 PA/BB (18.1 PA/BB Career)

I. Kinsler 22.5 PA/BB (11.0 PA/BB Career)

T. Hunter 35.2 PA/BB (15.7 PA/BB Career)


Who are some of the better hitters (non Tigers) in baseball?

J. Votto = 7.5 PA/BB Career

J. Bautista = 7.8 PA/BB Career

M. Trout = 8.4 PA/BB Career

M. Napoli = 8.4 PA/BB Career

D. Ortiz = 8.8 PA/BB Career

P. Golsdschmidt = 9.1 PA/BB Career

A. McCutchen = 9.3 PA/BB Career

J. Mauer = 9.8 PA/BB Career

G. Stanton = 9.9 PA/BB Career

T. Tulowitzki = 10.9 PA/BB Career


2014 BOS Position Players for the year

M. Napoli = 8.2 PA/BB

J. Gomes = 9.1 PA/BB

S. Drew = 9.8 PA/BB

D. Pedroia = 10.4 PA/BB

D. Nava = 10.9 PA/BB

D. Ortiz = 11.7 PA/BB

J. Saltalamacchia = 11.7 PA/BB


J. Ellsbury = 14.4 PA/BB (14.7 PA/BB Career)

S. Victorino = 21.3 PA/BB

W. Middlebrooks = 21.8 PA/BB



2014 DET Team = 14.8 PA/BB
2014 BOS Team = 11.6 PA/BB

2013 DET Team = 12.9 PA/BB
2013 BOS Team = 11.9 PA/BB

 

[tomdalton22]

The Tiger lack of consistent offense still boils down to their overall lack of plate discipline/working the count/driving the opposing starter's pitch count up.

Walk Rate

2014 AL AVG 13.2 PA/BB


2014 DET Walk Rates

A. Avila 5.6 PA/BB (8.2 PA/BB Career)

D. Kelly 10.7 PA/BB (14.1 PA/BB Career)

E. Suarez 11.4 PA/BB (10.9 PA/BB Career)

A. Jackson 11.5 PA/BB (11.9 PA/BB Career)

M. Cabrera 12.7 PA/BB (11.3 PA/BB Career)


A. Romine 13.1 PA/BB (14.4 PA/BB Career)

B. Holaday 14.5 PA/BB (16.6 PA/BB Career)

V. Martinez 16.4 PA/BB (12.4 PA/BB Career)

N. Castellanos 16.5 PA/BB (13.3 PA/BB Career Minors)

J.D. Martinez 17.1 PA/BB (15.9 PA/BB Career)

R. Davis 19.9 PA/BB (18.1 PA/BB Career)

I. Kinsler 22.5 PA/BB (11.0 PA/BB Career)

T. Hunter 35.2 PA/BB (15.7 PA/BB Career)


Who are some of the better hitters (non Tigers) in baseball?

J. Votto = 7.5 PA/BB Career

J. Bautista = 7.8 PA/BB Career

M. Trout = 8.4 PA/BB Career

M. Napoli = 8.4 PA/BB Career

D. Ortiz = 8.8 PA/BB Career

P. Golsdschmidt = 9.1 PA/BB Career

A. McCutchen = 9.3 PA/BB Career

J. Mauer = 9.8 PA/BB Career

G. Stanton = 9.9 PA/BB Career

T. Tulowitzki = 10.9 PA/BB Career


2014 BOS Position Players for the year

M. Napoli = 8.2 PA/BB

J. Gomes = 9.1 PA/BB

S. Drew = 9.8 PA/BB

D. Pedroia = 10.4 PA/BB

D. Nava = 10.9 PA/BB

D. Ortiz = 11.7 PA/BB

J. Saltalamacchia = 11.7 PA/BB


J. Ellsbury = 14.4 PA/BB (14.7 PA/BB Career)

S. Victorino = 21.3 PA/BB

W. Middlebrooks = 21.8 PA/BB



2014 DET Team = 14.8 PA/BB
2014 BOS Team = 11.6 PA/BB

2013 DET Team = 12.9 PA/BB
2013 BOS Team = 11.9 PA/BB

in the Boston series the Detroit got to the Sox pen and that didn't work out too well for them.

 

[Rebbiv]

in the Boston series the Detroit got to the Sox pen and that didn't work out too well for them.

So the one time it doesn't work out, means it isn't a good strategy then. Right?

 

[tomdalton22]

So the one time it doesn't work out, means it isn't a good strategy then. Right?

well...look at the recent success of the Tigers...it seems their approach is working.

Standings

2014...currently 1st
2013 - 1st
2012 - 1st
2011 - 1st

 

[Rebbiv]

well...look at the recent success of the Tigers...it seems their approach is working.

Standings

2014...currently 1st
2013 - 1st
2012 - 1st
2011 - 1st

Difference between regular season and the playoffs.

17-18 Record the last 3 years in the playoffs

10-2 when scoring 4 or more runs

0-12 when Opponent scores 4 or more runs

7-4 when neither team scores 4 or more runs

7-16 when they don't score at least 4 runs


Lost 9-3
Lost 10-1
Lost 3-2
Lost 7-3
Lost 7-3
Lost 15-5
Lost 2-0
Lost 4-3
Lost 8-3
Lost 2-0
Lost 2-0
Lost 4-3
Lost 1-0
Lost 6-3
Lost 6-5
Lost 1-0
Lost 4-3
Lost 5-2


Last 12 playoff losses (Last 2 years)

45 Runs Against (3.75 Runs Per Game)

22 Runs For (1.83 Runs Per Game)


Runs After the 6th Inning last 3 years, before BOS series

DET 54 IN 24 4.0 R/G

OPP 55 IN 22 3.6 R/G


Runs After the 6th Inning last 3 years, before BOS series

DET 71 IN 25 3.2 R/G

OPP 72 IN 34 4.3 R/G


BOS Series only after the 6th Inning

DET 17 IN 1 Run = 0.5 Runs Per Game

BOS 17 IN 12 Runs = 6.4 Runs Per Game


I will not deny that at least in the BOS Series, the bull pen came up short. But to honestly deny that the offense wasn't also the problem and that it has been throughout the playoffs the last 3 years is being naive.

 

[tomdalton22]

Difference between regular season and the playoffs.

17-18 Record the last 3 years in the playoffs

10-2 when scoring 4 or more runs

0-12 when Opponent scores 4 or more runs

7-4 when neither team scores 4 or more runs

7-16 when they don't score at least 4 runs


Lost 9-3
Lost 10-1
Lost 3-2
Lost 7-3
Lost 7-3
Lost 15-5
Lost 2-0
Lost 4-3
Lost 8-3
Lost 2-0
Lost 2-0
Lost 4-3
Lost 1-0
Lost 6-3
Lost 6-5
Lost 1-0
Lost 4-3
Lost 5-2


Last 12 playoff losses (Last 2 years)

45 Runs Against (3.75 Runs Per Game)

22 Runs For (1.83 Runs Per Game)


Runs After the 6th Inning last 3 years, before BOS series

DET 54 IN 24 4.0 R/G

OPP 55 IN 22 3.6 R/G


Runs After the 6th Inning last 3 years, before BOS series

DET 71 IN 25 3.2 R/G

OPP 72 IN 34 4.3 R/G


BOS Series only after the 6th Inning

DET 17 IN 1 Run = 0.5 Runs Per Game

BOS 17 IN 12 Runs = 6.4 Runs Per Game


I will not deny that at least in the BOS Series, the bull pen came up short. But to honestly deny that the offense wasn't also the problem and that it has been throughout the playoffs the last 3 years is being naive.

I think the offense comes up short because of too many holes in the lineup. This is the problem with the way this team is constructed. A few superstars and too many "garbage players". This is not likely to change due to the few that eat up most of the Tigers payroll. The only way it is going to change is if the Tigers get lucky with several guys like J.D.

 

[UMRules06]

The offense certainly left something to be desired. The fact that Austin Jackson became an auto-out and Prince Fielder decided he didn't care really hurt the Tigers. We can't have that repeat again this year. Kinsler will really help in this regard, as he has been to the playoffs on several occasions. I envision him playing a major offensive role for the Tigers come October.

Both the pen, and the offense could stand improvement. I am just more concerned about the pen.

 

[Rebbiv]

The offense certainly left something to be desired. The fact that Austin Jackson became an auto-out and Prince Fielder decided he didn't care really hurt the Tigers. We can't have that repeat again this year. Kinsler will really help in this regard, as he has been to the playoffs on several occasions. I envision him playing a major offensive role for the Tigers come October.

Both the pen, and the offense could stand improvement. I am just more concerned about the pen.

A players presence in prior playoffs increases his reliability? Bring on Delmon Young.

 

[UMRules06]

A players presence in prior playoffs increases his reliability? Bring on Delmon Young.

Yes I believe it is less likely that Kinsler will fold under the pressure since he has been there before. Is it a guarantee? No obviously not. It's still baseball, and players can go cold at any time. It was also more a shot at Fielder than anything else since he was absolutely brutal in the playoffs for us. Kinsler has a more proven track record there:

Fielder: 39 G, 164 PAs, 28 H, 5 HR, 11 RBI, 14 BB, 32 SO, .194/.287/.333
Kinsler: 34 G 148 PAs, 38 H, 4 HR, 20 RBI, 23 BB 16 SO, .311/.422/.484

If Miggy and Vmart do their thing, and AJax and Hunter don't go completely AWOL, I think the offense will be in decent enough shape. JD Martinez could be a real asset as well if he doesn't fall flat on his face in the second half. Would still love an upgrade somewhere though, just want more bullpen help as the priority.