Bad news involving Denard

[wlvrnstlr4life]

Let's be clear who made this about MSU and who brought up Cook in the first place. If this thread was hijacked, it was done by a couple of Wolverines who can't take a joke.

And we were just joking back, but sweet revisionist history about September Heismans.

 

[Spartanmack]

This might not have been the best thread for a joke. If it was just an accident, that's one thing thing. But it sounds fishy, and Denard getting into this kind of trouble would be a legit disappointment for some of us.

I think enough information is out to indicate it was likely just a simple accident - a single car accident with no injuries and no suspicion of anything more than simple driver error - to feel comfortable having a laugh. I wasn't impugning the guy's character or questioning the cause of the accident, merely having a little harmless joke at his expense.

 

[byco42]

yes, I'm sure about Cook - he may have made some heisman lists but was never even close to a front runner or in serious contention for it. With Denard, it was mentioned everytime he scored a TD against UConn or Bowling Green. Bringing up Cook's hype vs. Denard's as if they were similar is ridiculous.

Edit: and it's even more ridiculous to say the gap between their hype and their accomplishments is even in the same universe. Cook won 2 B1G titles and a Rose Bowl while setting his records as MSU's all time leader in passing yards, TDs and wins.

The guy won at least 3 September heismans but did he ever make first team all B1G?

Yes.

"At the end of the (2010) regular season, Robinson received the Chicago Tribune Silver Football trophy as the Most Valuable Player in the Big Ten Conference. He was also named Big Ten Offensive Player of the Year by the Big Ten coaches and media and by the College Football News. Robinson was also selected as a first-team All-American by the Football Writers Association of America as a running back a third-team All-American by the Associated Press as an all-purpose player and an honorable mention quarterback selection by Sports Illustrated and College Football News. He finished sixth in the 2010 Heisman Trophy voting and was selected as a first-team All-Big Ten quarterback by both the Big Ten media and College Football News.

 

[Spartanmack]

Yes.

"At the end of the (2010) regular season, Robinson received the Chicago Tribune Silver Football trophy as the Most Valuable Player in the Big Ten Conference. He was also named Big Ten Offensive Player of the Year by the Big Ten coaches and media and by the College Football News. Robinson was also selected as a first-team All-American by the Football Writers Association of America as a running back a third-team All-American by the Associated Press as an all-purpose player and an honorable mention quarterback selection by Sports Illustrated and College Football News. He finished sixth in the 2010 Heisman Trophy voting and was selected as a first-team All-Big Ten quarterback by both the Big Ten media and College Football News.

So to answer my question, he made 1st team all B1G once - sort of, by only the media in a year Michigan went 3-5 then didn't make either 1st or 2nd team with the media in any other year and never 1st or 2nd team by the coaches. And his best finish in the Heisman voting was a distant 6th without cracking the top 10 any other year. I think it's pretty safe to say I don't need to retract the "over-hyped" as a Heisman candidate year in and year out.

And I think it's worth pointing out the FWAA All-American honors hardly counts. They chose him over LaMichael James (the unanimous pick of 11 different bodies) and Kendall James (consensus pick of 5 others) and they also chose Kellen Moore over Cam Newton at QB that same year.

You know you can admit all the Heisman talk each year was overblown and that won't take away from the fact that he was fun to watch and the one bright spot for UofM football for those 4 years and more.

 

[byco42]

I am reminded that Denard's career rushing yards rank only behind Lorenzo White's in MSU annals. Same with career rushing TDs. By one.

 

[Spartanmack]

And we were just joking back, but sweet revisionist history about September Heismans.

You can, but as I demonstrated, it's not a valid comparison, just petty nonsense. And exactly what did I revise?

 

[Spartanmack]

I am reminded that Denard's career rushing yards rank only behind Lorenzo White's in MSU annals. Same with career rushing TDs. By one.

Wow, seems like an injustice then that Lorenzo White finished in the top 4 of Heisman trophy voting twice and Denard never did. Of course, Lorenzo did win a B1G title and a Rose Bowl. Not to mention, he got robbed in 1985 when he had the 4th most rushing yards in NCAA history and most ever by a sophomore, because he was just a sophomore and back then the Heisman nearly always went to a senior or at least a junior...in fact an underclassmen didn't win the Heismand until 2007, 20 years after Lorenzo White left MSU, when Tim Tebow won it as a sophomore.

 

[byco42]

You know you can admit all the Heisman talk each year was overblown and that won't take away from the fact that he was fun to watch and the one bright spot for UofM football for those 4 years and more.

He was not in the ESPN top-20 pre-season Heisman poll in 2010. And he finished 6th in the voting. His 2010 began with more than 900 yards by game five. So I think that the consideration for the Heisman at that point in the season was perhaps understandable. Even in 2011 he was one of 25 or so others considered (and not among the top 5) and I think that was somewhat justifiable after his 2010? You are revising history here. Only in 2012 was he considered a Heisman frontrunner.

 

[byco42]

Wow, seems like an injustice then that Lorenzo White finished in the top 4 of Heisman trophy voting twice and Denard never did. Of course, Lorenzo did win a B1G title and a Rose Bowl. Not to mention, he got robbed in 1985! when he had the 4th most rushing yards in NCAA history and most ever by a sophomore, because he was just a sophomore and back then the Heisman nearly always went to a senior or at least a junior...in fact an underclassmen didn't win the Heismand until 2007, 20 years after Lorenzo White left MSU, when Tim Tebow won it as a sophomore.

White over ... BO JACKSON????? I don't think so. Underclassmen are anyone but seniors, BTW.

 

[Spartanmack]

White over ... BO JACKSON????? I don't think so. Underclassmen are anyone but seniors, BTW.

Yes, White over Bo Jackson. And, BTW underclassmen are freshman and sophomores, upperclassmen are juniors and seniors...

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/upperclassman

 

[byco42]

Yes, White over Bo Jackson. And, BTW underclassmen are freshman and sophomores.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/upperclassman

Had Jackson had 419 carries at his YAC he'd have rushed for 2,600 yards. No. Jackson was the clear winner in 1985. And we can call a draw on the definition of underclassmen:

un?der?class?man
ˌəndərˈklasmən/
noun
plural noun: underclassmen
a student in high school or college who is not a senior.
"one of the talented underclassmen leaving campus life early for the NFL"

 

[tomdalton22]

Yes, White over Bo Jackson. And, BTW underclassmen are freshman and sophomores, upperclassmen are juniors and seniors...

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/upperclassman

Bo over White
Underclassman - Freshman and Sophmore
Upperclassman - Junior or Senior

 

[Spartanmack]

Had Jackson had 419 carries at his YAC he'd have rushed for 2,600 yards. No. Jackson was the clear winner in 1985. And we can call a draw on the definition of underclassmen:

un?der?class?man
ˌəndərˈklasmən/
noun
plural noun: underclassmen
a student in high school or college who is not a senior.
"one of the talented underclassmen leaving campus life early for the NFL"

clear winner? He had fewer total yards than White and Auburn started the season ranked #1 but finished unranked after going .500 in the SEC, losing to every ranked SEC team they played and got spanked by Texas A&M in their bowl game. As I said before, White lead the nation in rushing yards with the 4th most ever in NCAA history and most ever by a sophomore. And MSU probably had a slightly better season but did much better vs. expectations. And don't forget that the SEC wasn't exactly regarded as a strong defensive league at the time.

Before I call a draw, I'd like to know your source for that definition.

 

[tomdalton22]

clear winner? He had fewer total yards than White and Auburn started the season ranked #1 but finished unranked after going .500 in the SEC, losing to every ranked SEC team they played and got spanked by Texas A&M in their bowl game. As I said before, White lead the nation in rushing yards with the 4th most ever in NCAA history and most ever by a sophomore. And MSU probably had a slightly better season but did much better vs. expectations. And don't forget that the SEC wasn't exactly regarded as a strong defensive league at the time.

Before I call a draw, I'd like to know your source for that definition.

If you google underclassmen that is what comes up...if you go to one of the actual dictionary websites it says freshman or sophomore

 

[Spartanmack]

He was not in the ESPN top-20 pre-season Heisman poll in 2010. And he finished 6th in the voting. His 2010 began with more than 900 yards by game five. So I think that the consideration for the Heisman at that point in the season was perhaps understandable. Even in 2011 he was one of 25 or so others considered (and not among the top 5) and I think that was somewhat justifiable after his 2010? You are revising history here. Only in 2012 was he considered a Heisman frontrunner.

preseason ranking would be the August Heisman. I'm not revising anything, I'm talking about him racking up big numbers against mediocre to very weak nonconference opponents, generating a bunch of heisman hype, then falling off the radar completely. His first 5 games in 2010 were UConn, ND, UMass, Bowling Green and Indiana - not exactly a collection of defensive juggernauts. The best non-conference opponent he played against was Alabama in 2012 and they held him to 27 yards rushing.

 

[byco42]

clear winner? He had fewer total yards than White and Auburn started the season ranked #1 but finished unranked after going .500 in the SEC, losing to every ranked SEC team they played and got spanked by Texas A&M in their bowl game. As I said before, White lead the nation in rushing yards with the 4th most ever in NCAA history and most ever by a sophomore. And MSU probably had a slightly better season but did much better vs. expectations. And don't forget that the SEC wasn't exactly regarded as a strong defensive league at the time.

He led the nation in yards because he was the MSU offense. Except when they played Michigan that year.

Before I call a draw, I'd like to know your source for that definition.

It was top of the Google search for underclassmen.

 

[Spartanmack]

He led the nation in yards because he was the MSU offense. Except when they played Michigan that year.

True, but the same can be said for Bo at Auburn.

It was top of the Google search for underclassmen.

 

[TheVictors]

Cook was never over-hyped like Denard but nice try.

That's partly due to the fact that while Denard is one of the most likeable, marketable and fun guys possible, Cook is an utter douchebag whose own teammates could not stand

 

[Michchamp]

That's partly due to the fact that while Denard is one of the most likeable, marketable and fun guys possible, Cook is an utter douchebag whose own teammates could not stand

hmm...

"Derrrrr..."

 

[byco42]

True, but the same can be said for Bo at Auburn.

I remember that Brent Fullwood was also a key component of that Auburn offense. Neither team threw that much as I recall.