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Game 12: Lions @ Bears Thread

I didn't know they released Hall. It's funny, the article said they released him to see what some of the young guys. If that's the case, why not release Sanu?? At least Hall has some upside and is younger.
 
Hall was a solid player and a good deep threat but wasn't catching the bombs like last year. (only 2 in 11 games) The guy has one route and it's obvious when he is in the game what Lions will try to do with him. And never would have been cut if Shelton, Hand and Flowers weren't all hurt too needing to add to Dline. Added Kevin Strong from the cut. Strong makes the game winning play against the Bears on the stuff.

Sanu had some nice catches on Sunday and has had way more success in this league. They really like Cephus, he has some production and room to grow. I think Cephus could be the next Golladay eventually. Cephus caught a nice bomb on Sunday too. Marvin and Hock stepped up nicely. Going on most of the season without Golladay

Take away Hopkins, take away Thielen, take away Adams, take away Metcalf, take away Woods or Kupp for that long and see what happens to those offenses if nobody else steps up. Saints survived Thomas well due to Kamara and defense. Lions don't have a Kamara or defense but the Saints did lose 2 games without Thomas, their only 2 losses

Stafford is still doing well missing his top WR for most of the year especially when Marvin steps up and once again not much run game sans a few games
 
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Hall was a solid player and a good deep threat but wasn't catching the bombs like last year. (only 2 in 11 games) The guy has one route and it's obvious when he is in the game what Lions will try to do with him. And never would have been cut if Shelton, Hand and Flowers weren't all hurt too needing to add to Dline. Added Kevin Strong from the cut. Strong makes the game winning play against the Bears on the stuff.

Sanu had some nice catches on Sunday and has had way more success in this league. They really like Cephus, he has some production and room to grow. I think Cephus could be the next Golladay eventually. Cephus caught a nice bomb on Sunday too. Marvin and Hock stepped up nicely. Going on most of the season without Golladay

Take away Hopkins, take away Thielen, take away Adams, take away Metcalf, take away Woods or Kupp for that long and see what happens to those offenses if nobody else steps up. Saints survived Thomas well due to Kamara and defense. Lions don't have a Kamara or defense but the Saints did lose 2 games without Thomas, their only 2 losses

Stafford is still doing well missing his top WR for most of the year especially when Marvin steps up and once again not much run game sans a few games

I think if you have an elite QB missing your top WR doesn't hurt as much.

Look at GB. I think everyone would agree that their WR corps besides Adams is bad. Most NFL people thought that they should have addressed WR in last year's draft. Well, in the past 6 games that GB has played without Adams they are 6-0

Over the last 7 games that Thielen has missed MN is 5-2, and that's with an average QB, Cousins.
 
I think if you have an elite QB missing your top WR doesn't hurt as much.

Look at GB. I think everyone would agree that their WR corps besides Adams is bad. Most NFL people thought that they should have addressed WR in last year's draft. Well, in the past 6 games that GB has played without Adams they are 6-0

Over the last 7 games that Thielen has missed MN is 5-2, and that's with an average QB, Cousins.

Run game and defense. That's what needs to step up if the passing game takes a step back. Aaron Jones and Dalvin Cook stepped up. Same with Kamara for the Saints

Did the passing offense get alot worse, slightly worse is the question. And are other WRS, tight ends and pass catching RBs stepping up? It's more than just cut and dry. Alot can happen

I know for Stafford, rarely does the defense or run game step up for him, so it matters very much, more than other teams, if Golladay gets hurt (and then you throw Swift on top of that to really kill the run game)
 
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I think if you have an elite QB missing your top WR doesn't hurt as much.

Look at GB. I think everyone would agree that their WR corps besides Adams is bad. Most NFL people thought that they should have addressed WR in last year's draft. Well, in the past 6 games that GB has played without Adams they are 6-0

Over the last 7 games that Thielen has missed MN is 5-2, and that's with an average QB, Cousins.

GB has a much better defense, OL and a dynamic RB....and their 2-5 WR's are on par with ours at this point. Not a fair comparison at all.

Minn. has a deeper WR corp. this year with Jefferson......they also have a dynamic RB to lean on. Better comparison, but still not the same.

We have KG, an below average #2 in Jones and no running game. So losing our #1 hurts more than either of those teams losing their #1. We have NO other playmakers.
 
GB has a much better defense, OL and a dynamic RB....and their 2-5 WR's are on par with ours at this point. Not a fair comparison at all.

Minn. has a deeper WR corp. this year with Jefferson......they also have a dynamic RB to lean on. Better comparison, but still not the same.

We have KG, an below average #2 in Jones and no running game. So losing our #1 hurts more than either of those teams losing their #1. We have NO other playmakers.

Marvin has been a good number 2. Good number of TDS and some 1,000 yarders or close. And he steps up some games. Him and Hock has been really good too. But still need more than that. If run game stinks, defense stinks and protection is shoddy, it's going to be a bad day. Stafford to KG can't bail you out then.
 
Marvin has been a good number 2. Good number of TDS and some 1,000 yarders or close. And he steps up some games. Him and Hock has been really good too. But still need more than that. If run game stinks, defense stinks and protection is shoddy, it's going to be a bad day. Stafford to KG can't bail you out then.

I don't give a shit what he did in prior years. I watch the games. Jones is at BEST an average #2 receiver in the NFL at this point. He creates little separation, is not a deep threat anymore and is less reliable on 50/50 balls. He's also on the WRONG side of 30.

I'm not arguing that he's terrible, he's not, he just isn't that good. And he is NOT a "playmaker".
 
I don't give a shit what he did in prior years. I watch the games. Jones is at BEST an average #2 receiver in the NFL at this point. He creates little separation, is not a deep threat anymore and is less reliable on 50/50 balls. He's also on the WRONG side of 30.

I'm not arguing that he's terrible, he's not, he just isn't that good. And he is NOT a "playmaker".

Marvin is 32nd in WR yards in NFL. So 64 would be counting all number 2 WR and average number 2 would be around 48. Jones is a low tier number 1 WR based on that this year
And 17th in receiving TDs with 6 TDs so he can get close to 8-9 this year. 11th if that one TD would have counted against Carolina

So yeah he is not an average number 2. He's a low tier number 1 and really good number 2 for production. And Hock is 3rd in TE receiving yards and 4th in TEs. He is a stud. 12th best blocker per PFF too. What a great draft pick

The problem is run game support, defense (no short fields and can't get off the field and game situations being down making it known pass rush situations) and protection. KG out hurts more than other teams but it is not because Marvin/Hock are bad or that Stafford is average
 
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I don't give a shit what he did in prior years. I watch the games. Jones is at BEST an average #2 receiver in the NFL at this point. He creates little separation, is not a deep threat anymore and is less reliable on 50/50 balls. He's also on the WRONG side of 30.

I'm not arguing that he's terrible, he's not, he just isn't that good. And he is NOT a "playmaker".

and hes not worth $10 mil.
 
Marvin is 32nd in WR yards in NFL. So 64 would be counting all number 2 WR and average number 2 would be around 48. Jones is a low tier number 1 WR based on that this year
And 17th in receiving TDs with 6 TDs so he can get close to 8-9 this year. 11th if that one TD would have counted against Carolina

So yeah he is not an average number 2. He's a low tier number 1 and really good number 2 for production. And Hock is 3rd in TE receiving yards and 4th in TEs. He is a stud. 12th best blocker per PFF too. What a great draft pick

The problem is run game support, defense (no short fields and can't get off the field and game situations being down making it known pass rush situations) and protection. KG out hurts more than other teams but it is not because Marvin/Hock are bad or that Stafford is average

Hes been our #1 and hes not producing like it. That the point. It proves hes not #1 calibur. When youre not a #1, then youre a #2...at best. He just so happens to be an old #2 thats over paid. He should have been cut this past off season...i think his family tragedy saved him.
 
Hes been our #1 and hes not producing like it. That the point. It proves hes not #1 calibur. When youre not a #1, then youre a #2...at best. He just so happens to be an old #2 thats over paid. He should have been cut this past off season...i think his family tragedy saved him.

He is not our number 1. He is forced into it. And like I said he is 32nd in yards and has 6 TDs which is good. He has been producing.

2 TDs against Colts, 96 and TD against Washington, 116 and TD against Bears. He has produced some without Golladay. One step from 90 yards and TD against Panthers, 43 and TD against Vikings. He produces for sure
 
He is not our number 1. He is forced into it. And like I said he is 32nd in yards and has 6 TDs which is good. He has been producing.

2 TDs against Colts, 96 and TD against Washington, 116 and TD against Bears. He has produced some without Golladay. One step from 90 yards and TD against Panthers, 43 and TD against Vikings. He produces for sure

Your talking about production and everyone else is talking talent. Those two things are vastly different. His production is OK.....his talent level is a bad #2 or a solid #3.

His production does not make him talented. He?s getting a lot of targets right now? and almost all of his catches are against zone defenses, where there is no separation. Yes, he?s good at finding soft spots in zones. That?s about it.
 
Your talking about production and everyone else is talking talent. Those two things are vastly different. His production is OK.....his talent level is a bad #2 or a solid #3.

His production does not make him talented. He?s getting a lot of targets right now? and almost all of his catches are against zone defenses, where there is no separation. Yes, he?s good at finding soft spots in zones. That?s about it.

LOL his talent level is number 1 and it matches his production. if he is healthy, he is good (see 2016, 2017, 2018/2019 pre injury, 2020)
 
LOL his talent level is number 1 and it matches his production. if he is healthy, he is good (see 2016, 2017, 2018/2019 pre injury, 2020)

you are so predictable. When you are trying to defend Matt you say he has no weapons. Sounds like the Lions have 2 number one WRs on their roster. I'm sure you think Hock is a top 5 receiving TE as well.
 
GB has a much better defense, OL and a dynamic RB....and their 2-5 WR's are on par with ours at this point. Not a fair comparison at all.

Minn. has a deeper WR corp. this year with Jefferson......they also have a dynamic RB to lean on. Better comparison, but still not the same.

We have KG, an below average #2 in Jones and no running game. So losing our #1 hurts more than either of those teams losing their #1. We have NO other playmakers.

GB's defense isn't good, but almost any defense is better than the Lions. I don't think that GB's 2-5 are any better than what the Lions have...AR just makes them better. Jones is good, but I'm not sure he is that good. He has 2 good games this year (only games over 100). One vs the shitty Lion's D (168 & 2TD) and one vs Shitty Philly (130 yards and 1 TD). The rest of the games he has averaged 57 yards per game (4 yards per carry) and has had 4 TDs.

Jefferson...he is good too. MN was smart to draft him...GM101 ;)
 
you are so predictable. When you are trying to defend Matt you say he has no weapons. Sounds like the Lions have 2 number one WRs on their roster. I'm sure you think Hock is a top 5 receiving TE as well.

You again missed the point

Hock is a top 5 TE. 3rd in receiving yards and 4th in TDS. Marvin Jones is good. KG is good but not playing. It takes more than for a QB

Marvin is good but doesn't separate. He still produces. It makes it harder for Stafford but their connection works well. Same with Hock.

Stafford production depends on many things though. Bad protection and run game for long down and distance causes big problem for QBs. Pressure causes big problems for QB. Lack of short fields makes it harder for QBS. Bad defense being down double digits because of the defense makes it very hard for QBs.

And you can produce, but there can be plays that Stafford has an incomplete that the WR didn't produce on that particular play (doesn't mean they are a bad weapon, just that they made a mistake on that play). Next play Stafford/WRs do their job but then Oline doesn't. Sometimes its great plays from the defense (that Dline made the play of his life, same for Patrick Robinson Saints pick, crazy deflection first bears game pick). Sometimes a thumb injury is affecting throws. Sometimes it is predictable conservative play calling that is the problem.

There are so so many factors. Stafford and his weapons are good. Some of them are hurt. Some of them don't separate which it makes it tougher but they are still good and productive weapons. Stafford helps make them better too.

Stafford and weapons can be good, some piece of Oline can be good, Swift can be good but they can on occasion cause problems for the QB. And then they could also be not on the field which changes things.

He needs more than just weapons. All QBs need more than just weapons.

Weapons, run game, defense, protection, good play calling, good game situations (don't be in obvious passing situations). QBs need 3 of those for great success really even the elite ones. Stafford makes the most of the situation but its not due to lack of talent around him.

Sometimes drive will stall from sack on an Oline or RB whiff, sometimes a coverage sack, sometimes a run stuff, sometimes penalties make it too tough for the first down, sometimes defense make a great play, sometimes great defensive play call that nobody could stop from coming, sometimes its bad play calling, run, run pass situations)

Very rarely is it a bad throw (with a clean pocket) or bad decision. It happens with all QBs. Stafford has 4-5 picks on him, some of them when the Lions already getting their ass kicked and some were just great defensive plays
 
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Shenault, Hamler, Claypool, Denzel Mims, Van Jefferson were the options for Lions in Round 2

I take Swift over every one of them all day every day

Okudah was supposed to be a god damn slam dunk. Brown or Simmons is the pick over Tua and Herbert still. Especially after what Stafford did in 2019

Cephus and Hamler have the same production. Hamler is a really skinny little guy. Probably on IR in Detroit Week 1
 
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Shenault, Hamler, Claypool, Denzel Mims, Van Jefferson were the options for Lions in Round 2

I take Swift over every one of them all day every day

Okudah was supposed to be a god damn slam dunk. Brown or Simmons is the pick over Tua and Herbert still. Especially after what Stafford did in 2019

Cephus and Hamler have the same production. Hamler is a really skinny little guy. Probably on IR in Detroit Week 1

the play was to trade back from 3 but every team in the NFL knew that the Lions had a hard on for Okudah.
 
the play was to trade back from 3 but every team in the NFL knew that the Lions had a hard on for Okudah.

For good reason. Okudah was supposed to be a slam dunk. And we don't know what calls were fielded. Maybe nobody wanted to move up
 
Shenault, Hamler, Claypool, Denzel Mims, Van Jefferson were the options for Lions in Round 2

I take Swift over every one of them all day every day

Okudah was supposed to be a god damn slam dunk. Brown or Simmons is the pick over Tua and Herbert still. Especially after what Stafford did in 2019

Cephus and Hamler have the same production. Hamler is a really skinny little guy. Probably on IR in Detroit Week 1

I like the Swift pick but Claypool is a play making WR. We would have a lot more options on the table if he was our 2nd rounder last year.
 
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