3-D printed gun parts

[redandguilty]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local...d8b45e-779b-11e2-95e4-6148e45d7adb_story.html

Wilson?s group has posted several videos to YouTube of AR-15s firing rounds with 3-D printed high-capacity magazines and lower receivers, the part that includes the firing mechanism and is the only regulated portion of the gun if it?s bought over the counter. Wilson?s parts are made from high-grade polymer and retrofitted to the bodies of existing weapons. The receivers are made able to fire by adding over-the-counter springs, pins and a trigger.

?The threat is not of 3-D printing military-grade weapon components from standard blueprints on industrial 3-D printers,? Lipson said. ?The challenge is that [do-it-yourself] 3D printers can be used by anyone to print rogue, disposable and shoddy guns that could be used to fire a few rounds, then be recycled into a flower vase.?

I think I'm more worried about 3-D printing regulation than gun regulation. I hope I own a decent one before they get banned. I probably have at least 5 years.

 

[redandguilty]

6 rounds before failure:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLlJshR6nvg

 

[Thumb]

People who have the money to buy and or use 3-d printed objects, likely have enough money to buy the real thing.

An episode of CSI:NY had an interesting take though, they made a revolver, which failed after 2 shots, but since it was a 100% printed gun, there was no ballistic signature. Basically meaning people could print untraceable 1 shot assassination weapons, which would also pass through metal detectors.

 

[redandguilty]

People who have the money to buy and or use 3-d printed objects, likely have enough money to buy the real thing.

An episode of CSI:NY had an interesting take though, they made a revolver, which failed after 2 shots, but since it was a 100% printed gun, there was no ballistic signature. Basically meaning people could print untraceable 1 shot assassination weapons, which would also pass through metal detectors.

The first time I used a 3D printer, the machine cost $130k and it was about as cheap a machine as you could find. By the time I graduated, the department was buying a $10k printer. Now, I get ads for $1,300 commercial systems and you can build one DIY style for $500. What's the equipment cost to make good fake IDs? If someone comes up with a design that works, we might already be at the point where someone could buy a system for $500 and make money selling $50 untraceable, one-shot weapons.

 

[Michchamp]

from what I've read, this ease with which you can print a functioning firearm has been called into question. even firing just a couple rounds wasn't done without some steel manufactured parts. the compounds used by the printer aren't strong enough to withstand the force of a rifle cartridge enough to propel it with any velocity.

I think this was initially posted on gizmodo or some tech site a while ago. it was "the anti-gun control argument for self-described libertarian tech-geeks who want to distance themselves from liberals but appear as cold & shameless as the NRA in the aftermath of the horrific school shooting" argument du jour about a month ago.

 

[Thumb]

Well for sure in any gun you need a spring of some kind.

Either that or some really high tension elastic bands, which the printer could not replicate.

A short barreled pistol you could probably fire out a polymer barrel, but a long rifle you would need tempered steel to stand up to the friction and pressures.

 

[redandguilty]

Well for sure in any gun you need a spring of some kind.

Either that or some really high tension elastic bands, which the printer could not replicate.

A short barreled pistol you could probably fire out a polymer barrel, but a long rifle you would need tempered steel to stand up to the friction and pressures.

I've designed elastic components. You have to design to the elasticity of the plastic, but it can be done. Not that you can't but a spring for 50 cents and insert it into your plastic device.

 

[redandguilty]

The question isn't "can you build a functioning gun out of just plastic", it's "can you make a weapon out of parts from a cheap 3D printer in combination with other easily acquired, cheap components. If someone comes up with a design that requires a handful of metal parts from home depot, as long as they can still make a cheap untraceable gun just by following instructions, there's a potential problem.

Then again, I don't know how many people there are out there that really want to kill someone, but just can't get their hands on a gun. I'd be more worried about kids downloading and making the thing because they think it's cool.

 

[Michchamp]

The question isn't "can you build a functioning gun out of just plastic", it's "can you make a weapon out of parts from a cheap 3D printer in combination with other easily acquired, cheap components. If someone comes up with a design that requires a handful of metal parts from home depot, as long as they can still make a cheap untraceable gun just by following instructions, there's a potential problem.

Then again, I don't know how many people there are out there that really want to kill someone, but just can't get their hands on a gun. I'd be more worried about kids downloading and making the thing because they think it's cool.

pretty sure it's already illegal to manufacture firearms.

sounds like we're still a ways away from this being something any 16-year-old goth loser can print out and use to shoot up his school with.

guess increased gun control is still on the table.

sorry gun nuts and extreme-libertarian freaks.

 

[redandguilty]

pretty sure it's already illegal to manufacture firearms.

sounds like we're still a ways away from this being something any 16-year-old goth loser can print out and use to shoot up his school with.

guess increased gun control is still on the table.

sorry gun nuts and extreme-libertarian freaks.

Just so long as you don't take away my 3D printer rights.

 

[Michchamp]

the National 3-d Rifle Printer Association has your back

 

[Thumb]

the National 3-d Rifle Printer Association has your back

And it's president, John Malkolvich. (best vid I could find)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXg56QW6qfo

 

[redandguilty]

sounds like we're still a ways away from this being something any 16-year-old goth loser can print out and use to shoot up his school with.

But you can print high capacity magazines right now.

 

[tbone413]

3D printers are still a ways away from being able to make functional mechanical parts mostly because current printers are only able to print with thermoplastics, which are veristile but lack the strength needed to be used as a replacement for a metal part.

I built a 3D printer for my Engineering senior design project at WMU, and it takes a lot of knowledge of CAD and programming to even get it working properly. It took a team of 4 of us several weeks to get it calibrated to the point where it was printing acceptable parts, and even then, the parts were only used for model purposes.

Our printer used ABS plastic which doesnt have a very high tensile strength and would never be suitable for a mechanical component. Of course there are higher end 3D printers which are much more user friendly, but those also require a decent amount of knowledge to keep the machine maintained.

Give it 5-10 years and maybe there will be a 3D printer that can successfully print fiber glass reinforced thermosetting plastic (acrylic for example). Then we can talk about printers making functional parts. Until then 3D printers are best used for printing shot glasses (my design teams favorite thing to print ha), toys, and models.

 

[redandguilty]

the National 3-d Rifle Printer Association has your back

Good. 'cause the dems are going to come knocking for my 3D printer one of these days.

Congressman Says He'll Propose Ban On 3D-Printable Gun Magazines
http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygre...ll-propose-ban-on-3d-printable-gun-magazines/



Thanks Obama

 

[redandguilty]

3D printers are still a ways away from being able to make functional mechanical parts mostly because current printers are only able to print with thermoplastics, which are veristile but lack the strength needed to be used as a replacement for a metal part.

Expensive 3D printers can print in metal, ceramic, or even human cells (I saw a video a few years back about a 3D printed kidney.)

...and you can open up just about any cheap mechanical device these days and find gears and other mechanical plastic parts. You can't directly swap out plastic for metal, but you can design plastic mechanical devices. Plastic probably can't handle the heat of firing several rounds, but a one shot gun should be doable.

I just can't figure out why that one wacko in that video hasn't already done it.

 

[tbone413]

Yea expensive 3D printers that use SLS or SLA technology can print in ceramic or metal, but those cost 10s of thousands of dollars and even then, the parts printed from those machines have at best 30% of the strength of a molded part. The only way someone could really save money would be if they rapid manufactured a Die using a 3D printer and then used that die to stamp or cast real parts. That still requires massive machines that are in a warehouse. These types of machines are used by companies that specialize in additive manufacturing/rapid prototyping..some shmuck who wants to build a gun isnt going to be able to get his hands on one of those.

As far as someone having a 3D printer in their own house, well those printers are the FDM type that print in plastic only. I suppose that some super criminal or drug cartel could purchase a warehouse full of SLS or SLA printers that will print semi-functional parts. (assuming they had the time, knowledge and $ to invest and maintain a machine of that sort) but at that point they would be better off purchasing real manufacturing equipment and making actual guns.. Or just buy a gun illegally...much cheaper and easier.

 

[redandguilty]

Yea expensive 3D printers that use SLS or SLA technology can print in ceramic or metal, but those cost 10s of thousands of dollars and even then, the parts printed from those machines have at best 30% of the strength of a molded part.

The only way someone could really save money would be if they rapid manufactured a Die using a 3D printer and then used that die to stamp or cast real parts. That still requires massive machines that are in a warehouse.

As far as someone having a 3D printer in their own house that will print functional parts if they had the time, knowledge and $ to invest and maintain a machine of that sort - well they would be better off just buying a gun illegally...much cheaper and easier.

Did you see Thumb's In the Line of Fire clip? Something like that, maybe a little bulkier, 1 shot instead of 2, seems possible. Especially if the design includes a couple parts (like a spring and a metal tube) from home depot.

 

[tbone413]

I can see people printing parts of a gun like the trigger mechanism, extended clip, etc. and then purchasing the other parts to build a custom illegal gun. but an entire rapid prototyping gun is not practical IMO.

 

[Thumb]

I can see people printing parts of a gun like the trigger mechanism, extended clip, etc. and then purchasing the other parts to build a custom illegal gun. but an entire rapid prototyping gun is not practical IMO.

Depends on your definition of practical.

If practical is a cheap, effective, throwaway, untraceable weapon, how would that not be practical to them?