Game 12: Vikings @ Lions Thread

[detroit1811]

I don?t know what you?re not understanding. Damn near EVERY TEAM could make that claim. It?s completely pointless to say. You say Ravens game was just decided by an NFL record FG and a missed delay of game.

I call bullshit. If Hollywood Brown catches those WIDE OPEN throws?..that game isn?t even close. You can?t just pick and choose games and plays.

Those are the ifs and buts that every team can say. No team is NFL history can say they lost a game on a 66 yard FG.

 

[detroit1811]

Agree still lost. But shows how close to 7-5 we are
Would you feel better about rebuild at 7-5 even with worse draft picks or happy taking our lumps this year at 1-10-1 for really good picks

At 7-5 we would a leader in the wild card chase so yes I would much prefer that. At the end of the day though, if you are talking 4-8 or 1-10-1, I think we are better off 1-10-1 as we will be is position to draft a game changing talent which this roster desperately needs. We need a player who can be the face of this franchise and the easiest ways to find those guys is at the top of the draft.

 

[boogerlovejoy]

Those are the ifs and buts that every team can say. No team is NFL history can say they lost a game on a 66 yard FG.

No, but you're choosing "if's and buts" that benefit one team in a game where Baltimore's star WR dropped not one, but 2 wide open TD's. The if's and buts games only works if there are no ifs and buts from the other team.

The saying "you are what your record says you are" is pretty damn accurate for a reason.

Either way....my point is we are not close to 7-5. Yes.....if multiple plays in the close games we've played went our way....we might be 3-9.....but that's still a really bad team.

 

[grandy]

Football Outsiders had the Lions at 3 estimated wins prior to this week (probably close to 4 now). 3-9 or 4-8 seems realistic if more of the what-if scenarios worked out. Record aside, I don?t think they?re far and away the worst team in the NFL, whoever deserves that title is still debatable IMO, some of these other bottom feeders are getting blown out every other week.

 

[detroit1811]

No, but you're choosing "if's and buts" that benefit one team in a game where Baltimore's star WR dropped not one, but 2 wide open TD's. The if's and buts games only works if there are no ifs and buts from the other team.

The saying "you are what your record says you are" is pretty damn accurate for a reason.

Either way....my point is we are not close to 7-5. Yes.....if multiple plays in the close games we've played went our way....we might be 3-9.....but that's still a really bad team.

Guess we see that a little differently. There are games that you change a play here or there it can change the entire outcome of a game. Every team can say that every year. Then there are game like when the Packers get a phantom facemask call by the referees so set them up for a chance at a hail mary to win the game. Or when your playing the Packers and they call hands to the face on two plays in the same drive in the late 4th quarter on ciritical downs that were never hands to the face. On when the refs blatantly miss a delay of game that would have pushed back a kick 5 yards and made it virtually impossible to make thus ensuring a victory. Or when Calvin Johnson catches a ball in the end zone to win the game, but as hes rolling over he hits the ball on the ground to stand up and lets go of it and they say he didn't complete the process. Or when Marcus Pollard makes a sliding grab in the endzone with both knees down in bounds with seconds to go, but the refs somehow decide it isn't a touchdown.

Those are not games that indicates your record is what it says you are. Those are games that are blatantly stolen from you through no fault of your own.

 

[detroit1811]

Football Outsiders had the Lions at 3 estimated wins prior to this week (probably close to 4 now). 3-9 or 4-8 seems realistic if more of the what-if scenarios worked out. Record aside, I don?t think they?re far and away the worst team in the NFL, whoever deserves that title is still debatable IMO, some of these other bottom feeders are getting blown out every other week.

100% agree. These Lions are better then a 1-10-1 team. Are they playoff caliber? Not even close. Are they mediorcre? not quite. Are they the worst team in the NFL? Hell no.

IMO, they are playing above their talent level indicates they should be playing and that credit has to go to this coaching staff. I get Campbell needs better clock management and needs to make better decisions in the moment, but those things can be fixed. These guys love their head coach and I can't remember any Lions team since I've started watching them that will fight for their head coach as hard as they do. That to me means something.

 

[LKP]

100% agree. These Lions are better then a 1-10-1 team. Are they playoff caliber? Not even close. Are they mediorcre? not quite. Are they the worst team in the NFL? Hell no.

IMO, they are playing above their talent level indicates they should be playing and that credit has to go to this coaching staff. I get Campbell needs better clock management and needs to make better decisions in the moment, but those things can be fixed. These guys love their head coach and I can't remember any Lions team since I've started watching them that will fight for their head coach as hard as they do. That to me means something.

Razor thin margin to playoff caliber in the Lions case this year. Agree everyone can make a case a play here or there, Vikings and Steelers for sure but so can the Lions. If they get a better QB and number 1 WR, maybe they start making those plays. Excited for the draft and FA for 2022 and beyond. I love how the rookies play yesterday for the most part. Josh Reynolds addition is opening things up. Oline is gelling some but things to clean up too.

Even with this shit team, they could have been 7-5 with just a handful of plays or less injuries or better coaching decision. Good to know it can be turned around if they start making those plays. Even just Decker injury and a better number 1 WR most of the year, I wonder how it will have turned out. Guess we'll find out in 2022.

 

[tomdalton22]

Razor thin margin to playoff caliber in the Lions case this year. Agree everyone can make a case a play here or there, Vikings and Steelers for sure but so can the Lions. If they get a better QB and number 1 WR, maybe they start making those plays. Excited for the draft and FA for 2022 and beyond. I love how the rookies play yesterday for the most part. Josh Reynolds addition is opening things up. Oline is gelling some but things to clean up too.

Even with this shit team, they could have been 7-5 with just a handful of plays or less injuries or better coaching decision. Good to know it can be turned around if they start making those plays. Even just Decker injury and a better number 1 WR most of the year, I wonder how it will have turned out. Guess we'll find out in 2022.

they're a few plays away from 0-12 too

 

[boogerlovejoy]

Then there are game like when the Packers get a phantom facemask call by the referees so set them up for a chance at a hail mary to win the game.

But making those statements for only one side makes it all a completely moot point. Yes, the phantom facemask call was complete bullshit, and I will never understand having instant replay available but not using it to determine calls like that, but the flip side of that is......

why the fuck did we have two DB stationed on the sidelines 30 yards from where the throw was going to go on an UNTIMED DOWN?? Why wasn't Calvin Johnson out there? What would the outcome have been had we taken those two completely unused defenders and blitzed them? Would Rogers have time to get that throw off?

It's frustrating to lose games like that....and I am there complaining too....but taking a talentless 1-10-1 team and somehow saying they are "CLOSE" to being 7-5 is fucking laughable. That has always been my point. I'm not saying we couldnt have won another game or even 2. But 6??? LOL....no.

 

[LKP]

they're a few plays away from 0-12 too

Razor thin margin from 0-12 to 7-5 then. Parity league

 

[detroit1811]

This may be a little off topic, but what I don't get is the hate for this staff in year one. There has been awful decisions at critical moments, but those are things that can be improved. The fact that this team is competing almost every week no matter the opponent across from them is a testament to coaching. The worst team we have played all year is probably the Bears. Our schedule has been very tough and we are usually way less talented then the opposing team. Does this not mean something?

 

[mhughes0021]

I don?t know what you?re not understanding. Damn near EVERY TEAM could make that claim. It?s completely pointless to say. You say Ravens game was just decided by an NFL record FG and a missed delay of game.

I call bullshit. If Hollywood Brown catches those WIDE OPEN throws?..that game isn?t even close. You can?t just pick and choose games and plays.

i agree with you. But i think the major difference from other teams is our coaches are the ones losing the games....not the players. This week honestly felt like the coaches were yet again trying to lose....and the players went out and had to take the win. Our players are playing against the other team, our coaches and at some points...the refs. Nearly impossible task for a young talentless group.

 

[boogerlovejoy]

Razor thin margin from 0-12 to 7-5 then. Parity league

It's thin....its not that thin.

If it were, teams would struggle to win 10 games/year.....it would be rare to win 12 and winning 13 or more would almost never happen.

 

[boogerlovejoy]

i agree with you. But i think the major difference from other teams is our coaches are the ones losing the games....not the players. This week honestly felt like the coaches were yet again trying to lose....and the players went out and had to take the win. Our players are playing against the other team, our coaches and at some points...the refs. Nearly impossible task for a young talentless group.

Maybe. I certainly don't call Goff looking directly at Hockenson for 3 seconds and then firing a ball 2 yards behind him that easily gets intercepted a coaching issue.

Took a TO before the end of the first half when Minnesota had the ball that led us to have enough time to kick a FG.

Does DC have to get better? Yes. Has that hurt us at times? Yes. To say our players AREN'T the ones losing the games is pretty funny.....especially coming from you....they guy who points out every mistake every player makes.

"Hockenson sucks". "Goof sucks". "Anzelone sucks". "Okudah sucks".......doesn't sound like a coaching issue to me.

 

[mhughes0021]

Maybe. I certainly don't call Goff looking directly at Hockenson for 3 seconds and then firing a ball 2 yards behind him that easily gets intercepted a coaching issue.

Took a TO before the end of the first half when Minnesota had the ball that led us to have enough time to kick a FG.

Does DC have to get better? Yes. Has that hurt us at times? Yes. To say our players AREN'T the ones losing the games is pretty funny.....especially coming from you....they guy who points out every mistake every player makes.

"Hockenson sucks". "Goof sucks". "Anzelone sucks". "Okudah sucks".......doesn't sound like a coaching issue to me.

Oh ill quickly point out how bad the talent pool is...see the other thread that was just started lol. Id get rid of almost everyone. But bottom line is we are in a majority of games....which is surprising to me in the first place....and then the coaches do something to fuck it all up....many times over.

 

[LKP]

It's thin....its not that thin.

If it were, teams would struggle to win 10 games/year.....it would be rare to win 12 and winning 13 or more would almost never happen.

Its about the closeness of the games. Not win total. Lions could be 7-5 if not for some coaching and injuries with this subpar roster against a tough schedule..will see how they continue to improve and add talent or if they keep losing double digit close games. Qb and number 1 wr will help and a defensive playmaker

 

[boogerlovejoy]

Oh ill quickly point out how bad the talent pool is...see the other thread that was just started lol. Id get rid of almost everyone. But bottom line is we are in a majority of games....which is surprising to me in the first place....and then the coaches do something to fuck it all up....many times over.

So if we have no talent.....and we're in most games......is it all luck?

I guess teams just feel bad for us and don't play as hard?

I'll admit our coaching hasn't been super bowl level great......but how in the holy fuck is this talentless team in most game??

It's coaching.

 

[detroit1811]

Oh ill quickly point out how bad the talent pool is...see the other thread that was just started lol. Id get rid of almost everyone. But bottom line is we are in a majority of games....which is surprising to me in the first place....and then the coaches do something to fuck it all up....many times over.

So our players sucks, it is surprising we are in a majority of games, but we are losing because of the coaches? So if coaches suck, players suck, how the hell are we in these games?

Coaching is very good, poor in-game management in crucial situations though. Coaching goes well beyond what you see for 3 hours on gameday.

 

[mhughes0021]

So our players sucks, it is surprising we are in a majority of games, but we are losing because of the coaches? So if coaches suck, players suck, how the hell are we in these games?

Coaching is very good, poor in-game management in crucial situations though. Coaching goes well beyond what you see for 3 hours on gameday.

ive pointed this out several times. Not sure why i have to do it again since you all watch the same games i watch.

Minnestoa game 1 - Min ran the ball over and over. Could have passed for 600 yards if they wanted to. Zimmer should have been fired on the spot. Terrible game plan....Min squeeked out a win vs a crappy team.

Pit - their QB found out he was starting 8 hours before the game. 0 first team reps. We didnt win.

Bal - dropped 3 non contested TD passes. We still lost.

Cle - their QB had 2 injured knees, a torn labrum, injured ankle and couldnt throw the ball further than 9 yards....we still lost.

 

[detroit1811]

ive pointed this out several times. Not sure why i have to do it again since you all watch the same games i watch.

Minnestoa game 1 - Min ran the ball over and over. Could have passed for 600 yards if they wanted to. Zimmer should have been fired on the spot. Terrible game plan....Min squeeked out a win vs a crappy team.

Pit - their QB found out he was starting 8 hours before the game. 0 first team reps. We didnt win.

Bal - dropped 3 non contested TD passes. We still lost.

Cle - their QB had 2 injured knees, a torn labrum, injured ankle and couldnt throw the ball further than 9 yards....we still lost.

We also had close games with San Fran, GB, and Chicago twice. Without Big Ben, Pittsburgh is still way better then us. Baltimore is one of the best teams in the AFC. Cleveland has a very good defense and one of the best rushing attacks in the league. The Lions have lost some of its best players to injury in what was alreadya crappy team. You can be an negative as you want, but the facts are the Lions are clearly outplaying their talent and that is due to the coaching.