Tigers 2021-2022 Free Agents Trades Rule 5 Arbitration Moves

[tigermud]

I like the Baez signing he can play multiple infield positions and is a real gamer. Don?t discount what his fire will bring to the team

 

[@Stakesarehigh]

Just think it's funny how this team sucks for half a decade with no effort at putting a winning team together and now we want to nit pick a signing like this.

 

[Mitchrapp]

We haven't has a good SS in forever. Maybe since Tram.

 

[kalinecountry]

https://totallytigers.wordpress.com/2021/11/30/the-magic-in-motown/
?THE MAGIC? IN MOTOWN.
Totally Tigers

 

[@Stakesarehigh]

We haven't has a good SS in forever. Maybe since Tram.

Peralta and Guillen prob the best.. neither had the kind of years Baez had really. I think only Guillen's 06 year is better than what Baez did last year

 

[Mitchrapp]

Peralta and Guillen prob the best.. neither had the kind of years Baez had really. I think only Guillen's 06 year is better than what Baez did last year

I forgot about those guys.

 

[sggatecl]

I like players with good OBP and walk rates, and players who do not chase slop and strike out a ton. Baez wasn't my first choice, and more I look at this compared to what they have put out there at shortstop he is still an improvement Great Defense and Home run power. Just the chase rate low walk rate I don't.
https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/baezja01.shtml
I'm not sure where exactly the decline in numbers is. His last 2 months with the Mets he played great, and walked at a high rate.
Meh they still need a lot more to be a legitimate WS contending team.

Yes he had a good 2 months in New York. I can't rationalize giving someone a seven year deal based on a good 2 months where before that he was clearly regressing.

(2018): .290/.326/.554, .881 OPS, 34 home runs, 21 stolen bases, 111 RBIs, 101 runs and 25.9% K-rate.

(2019): .281/.316/.531, .847 OPS, 29 home runs, 11 stolen bases, 85 RBIs, 89 runs scored, 27.8& K-rate.

(2020-?21) Before New York: .205/.244/.381, 12 home runs, 8 stolen bases, 36 RBIs, 33 runs scored, .526 OPS, 34.6% K-rate

Regression aside, I find it hard to believe that his numbers won't take a natural dip because of playing in Comerica. I like that he plays good defense but you don't pay a SS $160 million for his defense.

People can say I'm 'nit picking' all they want but until I see what they do with the rest of free agency, this is a very underwhelming addition and it will not age well. If we stop daydreaming about 2018 Baez and look at the last couple seasons, you'll see he has numbers comparable to Jonathan Schoop. Hardly worth $160m.

Looking forward to the rest of the free agency additions that this 'value signing' allows.

 

[grandy]

(2018): 645 PA, .290/.326/.554, .881 OPS, 34 home runs, 21 stolen bases, 111 RBIs, 101 runs and 25.9% K-rate.

(2019): 561 PA,.281/.316/.531, .847 OPS, 29 home runs, 11 stolen bases, 85 RBIs, 89 runs scored, 27.8& K-rate.

(2020-?21) Before New York: 598 PA,.205/.244/.381, 12 home runs, 8 stolen bases, 36 RBIs, 33 runs scored, .526 OPS, 34.6% K-rate

Adding PAs, just to help me.

Where did you pull the '20-'21 Cubs numbers?

https://www.fangraphs.com/players/j...&season=&gds=2020-07-24&gde=2021-07-29&type=0

(2020-?21) Before New York: 598 PA,.231/.273/.435, 30 home runs, 16 stolen bases, 90 RBIs, 76 runs scored, .708 OPS, 34.4% K-rate

I don't think it hurts or helps your point all that much, just wanted to clarify.

 

[kalinecountry]

https://www.mlb.com/tigers/news/tigers-expected-to-non-tender-matthew-boyd
Tigers non-tender left-hander Boyd.
Tigers official site

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/s...ther-arbitration-eligible-players/8815951002/
Emotional Boyd officially bids farewell; Tigers bring back 8 arbitration-eligible players.
Detnews

https://www.freep.com/story/sports/mlb/tigers/2021/11/30/detroit-tigers-tender-contracts/8814472002/
Detroit Tigers tender contracts to eight arbitration-eligible players for 2022 season.
Freep

https://www.mlive.com/tigers/2021/1...but-choose-to-bring-back-8-other-players.html
Tigers cut ties with Matthew Boyd, but choose to bring back 8 other players.
Mlive

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2021/11/tigers-non-tender-matthew-boyd.html
Tigers Non-Tender Matthew Boyd.
MLBTR

 

[@Stakesarehigh]

Yes he had a good 2 months in New York. I can't rationalize giving someone a seven year deal based on a good 2 months where before that he was clearly regressing.

(2018): .290/.326/.554, .881 OPS, 34 home runs, 21 stolen bases, 111 RBIs, 101 runs and 25.9% K-rate.

(2019): .281/.316/.531, .847 OPS, 29 home runs, 11 stolen bases, 85 RBIs, 89 runs scored, 27.8& K-rate.

(2020-?21) Before New York: .205/.244/.381, 12 home runs, 8 stolen bases, 36 RBIs, 33 runs scored, .526 OPS, 34.6% K-rate

Regression aside, I find it hard to believe that his numbers won't take a natural dip because of playing in Comerica. I like that he plays good defense but you don't pay a SS $160 million for his defense.

People can say I'm 'nit picking' all they want but until I see what they do with the rest of free agency, this is a very underwhelming addition and it will not age well. If we stop daydreaming about 2018 Baez and look at the last couple seasons, you'll see he has numbers comparable to Jonathan Schoop. Hardly worth $160m.

Looking forward to the rest of the free agency additions that this 'value signing' allows.

I have zero clue where you're getting those numbers man. He hit 22 home runs with a .775 OPS with Chicago last year. If you add a down 2020 (which Correa only had a .703 OPS himself) he hit 30 home runs in 150 games. Also apparently in this planet where Baez only hit 12 home runs and not 30 .244 plus .381 equals 526 and not 626.

Also it's 140 million not 160.

I'd much much rather be dealing with this contract than giving Saegar 300 plus and he can't stay healthy and paying Correa more than double Baez.

Again all things equal money wise I'd prefer Carlos but the length of this deal plays perfectly into an ideal future where they need that money to extend Tork, Skubal, Manning, Mize, and Greene and not have 25 million plus into an aging shortstop.

And goodness man it's 6 years not 7. At minimum can you form an opinion around accurate facts?

 

[tomdalton22]

from an article I was reading about the top free agents for the 2022 season.

15. Javier Baez

Javier B?ez isn?t this far down our MLB free agents list for this thumbs down moment. When you bring in a player who goes through life with his heart on his sleeve and expresses his passion in good times and bad, you know what you?re getting. B?ez is an entertaining player and his work with the glove is outstanding, but there are drawbacks.

For all the physical talent, Baez?s swing-and-miss rates are getting worse. The infielder?s strikeout rate has increased every year since 2018 (25.9%) and is now topping out above 33%. Keep in mind, he?s only walking in 5.2% of his plate appearances. The power is great, but the flaws in his swing will only get worse with age. Baez is one of the riskiest MLB free agents this winter.

 

[Mitchrapp]

Yes he had a good 2 months in New York. I can't rationalize giving someone a seven year deal based on a good 2 months where before that he was clearly regressing.

(2018): .290/.326/.554, .881 OPS, 34 home runs, 21 stolen bases, 111 RBIs, 101 runs and 25.9% K-rate.

(2019): .281/.316/.531, .847 OPS, 29 home runs, 11 stolen bases, 85 RBIs, 89 runs scored, 27.8& K-rate.

(2020-?21) Before New York: .205/.244/.381, 12 home runs, 8 stolen bases, 36 RBIs, 33 runs scored, .526 OPS, 34.6% K-rate

Regression aside, I find it hard to believe that his numbers won't take a natural dip because of playing in Comerica. I like that he plays good defense but you don't pay a SS $160 million for his defense.

People can say I'm 'nit picking' all they want but until I see what they do with the rest of free agency, this is a very underwhelming addition and it will not age well. If we stop daydreaming about 2018 Baez and look at the last couple seasons, you'll see he has numbers comparable to Jonathan Schoop. Hardly worth $160m.

Looking forward to the rest of the free agency additions that this 'value signing' allows.

His k rate is bad. Hopefully can fix that.. And '19 maybe a dip but for a SS still good numbers. It's like saying Miggy dipped from 2011 to 2012. I give him a pass on 2020 like I do everyone else. Delayed season. messed up preseason etc..

Seager injury history, hit .211 this past season. Story hit .203 outside of Coors. Semien wanted 7 years and he's 31. Correa is going to get paid.

When you look at it who was the best option?

 

[tomdalton22]

His k rate is bad. Hopefully can fix that.. And '19 maybe a dip but for a SS still good numbers. It's like saying Miggy dipped from 2011 to 2012. I give him a pass on 2020 like I do everyone else. Delayed season. messed up preseason etc..

Seager injury history, hit .211 this past season. Story hit .203 outside of Coors. Semien wanted 7 years and he's 31. Correa is going to get paid.

When you look at it who was the best option?

I would have to guess that his K rate is going to be similar in Detroit. I highly doubt a guy that has been in the league this long is going to change too much in that department.

 

[Mitchrapp]

I would have to guess that his K rate is going to be similar in Detroit. I highly doubt a guy that has been in the league this long is going to change too much in that department.

Probably not but I can hope.

 

[sggatecl]

Adding PAs, just to help me.

Where did you pull the '20-'21 Cubs numbers?

https://www.fangraphs.com/players/j...&season=&gds=2020-07-24&gde=2021-07-29&type=0

(2020-?21) Before New York: 598 PA,.231/.273/.435, 30 home runs, 16 stolen bases, 90 RBIs, 76 runs scored, .708 OPS, 34.4% K-rate

I don't think it hurts or helps your point all that much, just wanted to clarify.

It was from an old article I had bookmarked last year when I first started paying attention to the upcoming shortstop market.

https://sportsnaut.com/chicago-cubs-rumor-javier-baez-contract/

Also it's 140 million not 160.

And goodness man it's 6 years not 7. At minimum can you form an opinion around accurate facts?

Original tweets and reports I read said 7/160. 6/140 doesn't change my opinion at all but thanks for the correction.

Baez has terrible contact numbers and for a guy entering his 30s soon, that's the one stat you don't want to be your weakness as your bat speed starts to go.

It was a small sample size, but we saw what can happen in 2020 if his power numbers can?t make up for his plate discipline, and it is ugly. A .203/.238/.360, good for a 59 OPS+, 55 WRC+ and a .256 wOBA.

Feel free to be a dick and explain how those numbers aren't accurate or not important.

Again all things equal money wise I'd prefer Carlos but the length of this deal plays perfectly into an ideal future where they need that money to extend Tork, Skubal, Manning, Mize, and Greene and not have 25 million plus into an aging shortstop.

Even if they'd signed Correa to a deal worth 10/300, they're still below league average in payroll. And when you consider Miggy is off the books in 2 years, it's even more irrelevant. This narrative that they won't be able to give new contracts to the young guys is absurd.

When our young core is eligible for arbitration/free agency:

Skubal - 2024 / 2027
Mize - 2023 / 2027
Manning - 2025 / 2028
Paredes - 2024 / 2027
Turnbull - 2022 / 2025
Torkleson/Greene - Because they haven't even logged MLB time, we don't even have dates on these guys. You can assume pretty safely 2026-2028 for arbitration and 2029 for free agency.

 

[Mitchrapp]

10 year deals are just bad, doesn't matter the age. Even Trout he's 0 for one because he missed most of the season last season. Too much of a risk and it's not like Correa is pumping out prime Miggy numbers. SS get overpaid just because they're a SS.

 

[tomdalton22]

When our young core is eligible for arbitration/free agency:

Skubal - 2024 / 2027
Mize - 2023 / 2027
Manning - 2025 / 2028
Paredes - 2024 / 2027
Turnbull - 2022 / 2025
Torkleson/Greene - Because they haven't even logged MLB time, we don't even have dates on these guys. You can assume pretty safely 2026-2028 for arbitration and 2029 for free agency.

all of those dates are probably going to change with the new CBA

 

[sggatecl]

all of those dates are probably going to change with the new CBA

For sure. From what I understand, MLB has proposed to make it based on age (I think I saw 29?) rather than service time. That could make some of those dates sooner and some later. But that's just an assumption since we have no idea what will be the final outcome.

I think I also read MLB is suggesting a minimum payroll of $100m though that shouldn't effect the Tigers after this offseason.

 

[tomdalton22]

For sure. From what I understand, MLB has proposed to make it based on age (I think I saw 29?) rather than service time. That could make some of those dates sooner and some later. But that's just an assumption since we have no idea what will be the final outcome.

I think I also read MLB is suggesting a minimum payroll of $100m though that shouldn't effect the Tigers after this offseason.

MLB's minimum payroll was a farce. They proposed a minimum of $100M but wanted to set the luxury threshold at $180M. No way that flies.

 

[sggatecl]

10 year deals are just bad, doesn't matter the age. Even Trout he's 0 for one because he missed most of the season last season. Too much of a risk and it's not like Correa is pumping out prime Miggy numbers. SS get overpaid just because they're a SS.

To be fair, when Miggy's contract started in 2016, at age 33 he wasn't putting up prime Miggy numbers either. The Tigers literally started paying/rewarding Miggy's amazing career as his career began to decline.

Correa is 27. I don't think that's a fair comparison at all but in your defense I keep seeing it over and over.

Superstars get 10+ year deals now, it is what it is. If you don't think Correa is worth it, that's your opinion and you're not alone. But you're also saying you're comfortable never bringing a Trout/Tatis/Harper to Detroit ever again.

Imagine if in 5-7 years, Tork and/or Greene have blown up and are on that level. You saved money in 2021 by signing Baez to a short deal and making it easier to keep these guys. What's the point if you don't plan on paying them anyways?