Abdullah Signs

[inkfreq]

Your football IQ is cute. Moore is the #3 WR on this team. Never said he was the 3rd option. One of these days you guys will get it lol.

But you are right though. Ebron was supposed to make life a little easier for players like Tate and CJ. Obviously that didn't quite go as planned last year. Keep bitching about Ebron though...lol

Don't know if I agree completely.

It's no secret Ebron didn't pop eyes like a #10 pick should last year, but this thread has a lot of sarcasm involved when discussing how he pulled defenders off Clavin and Golden last season.

Fact is, when Ebron was on the field, he was defended. No he didn't command double teams, and due to the play calling he was often covered by simple zone, but it's not like he was running alone down the sidelines with no one caring he was there.

Calvin was over 1,000 yards last season while missing 3 games. Golden was over 1300 yards last season. That's actually a really impressive number of yards. And they wouldn't have done it without guys like Ebron and even Droptimus Prime pulling a defender off them.

I think I remember all of one play last season where one of our receivers was running deep down field completely open. That was Jeremy Ross, and I was praying they wouldn't throw it his way on 3rd down because it was an auto-fail.

Don't remember if they did or not. Point is, just because he didn't put up the numbers, doesn't mean he didn't have an impact on guys like #81 and #15.

 

[cheeno]

Don't know if I agree completely.

It's no secret Ebron didn't pop eyes like a #10 pick should last year, but this thread has a lot of sarcasm involved when discussing how he pulled defenders off Clavin and Golden last season.

Fact is, when Ebron was on the field, he was defended. No he didn't command double teams, and due to the play calling he was often covered by simple zone, but it's not like he was running alone down the sidelines with no one caring he was there.

Calvin was over 1,000 yards last season while missing 3 games. Golden was over 1300 yards last season. That's actually a really impressive number of yards. And they wouldn't have done it without guys like Ebron and even Droptimus Prime pulling a defender off them.

I think I remember all of one play last season where one of our receivers was running deep down field completely open. That was Jeremy Ross, and I was praying they wouldn't throw it his way on 3rd down because it was an auto-fail.

Don't remember if they did or not. Point is, just because he didn't put up the numbers, doesn't mean he didn't have an impact on guys like #81 and #15.

You could make this same argument about any player on the field. Of course you have to cover an eligible receiver. Whether that eligible receiver is a top ten pick or some turd off of the street hes going to be covered. Tate's emergence stems from CJ's and Reggie Bush's injuries and had 0.01% to do with Y1E.

 

[tonyballs]

Don't know if I agree completely.

It's no secret Ebron didn't pop eyes like a #10 pick should last year, but this thread has a lot of sarcasm involved when discussing how he pulled defenders off Clavin and Golden last season.

Fact is, when Ebron was on the field, he was defended. No he didn't command double teams, and due to the play calling he was often covered by simple zone, but it's not like he was running alone down the sidelines with no one caring he was there.

Calvin was over 1,000 yards last season while missing 3 games. Golden was over 1300 yards last season. That's actually a really impressive number of yards. And they wouldn't have done it without guys like Ebron and even Droptimus Prime pulling a defender off them.

I think I remember all of one play last season where one of our receivers was running deep down field completely open. That was Jeremy Ross, and I was praying they wouldn't throw it his way on 3rd down because it was an auto-fail.

Don't remember if they did or not. Point is, just because he didn't put up the numbers, doesn't mean he didn't have an impact on guys like #81 and #15.

Oooooooooo you're going to get the Umbrella Club very upset with you

 

[boogerlovejoy]

I think I remember all of one play last season where one of our receivers was running deep down field completely open. That was Jeremy Ross, and I was praying they wouldn't throw it his way on 3rd down because it was an auto-fail.

Tate's TD vs. Atlanta in London. Completely uncovered dart from Stafford.

 

[inkfreq]

Tate's TD vs. Atlanta in London. Completely uncovered dart from Stafford.

Coverage failed. Not exactly the same as just ignoring a receiver.

Which, contrary to opinion, does happen. I've seen receivers so bad (Troy Williamson comes to mind) that defenses literally let him run free, with no fear of him catching one.

 

[inkfreq]

Oooooooooo you're going to get the Umbrella Club very upset with you

One side or another on this board is usually not happen with the people in the middle.

 

[cheeno]

Real extreme point of view. Your top 10 pick should be more than a pylon warmed up to 98.6 degrees. Thanks for being the voice of moderation.

 

[brewer229]

Don't know if I agree completely.

It's no secret Ebron didn't pop eyes like a #10 pick should last year, but this thread has a lot of sarcasm involved when discussing how he pulled defenders off Clavin and Golden last season.

Fact is, when Ebron was on the field, he was defended. No he didn't command double teams, and due to the play calling he was often covered by simple zone, but it's not like he was running alone down the sidelines with no one caring he was there.

Calvin was over 1,000 yards last season while missing 3 games. Golden was over 1300 yards last season. That's actually a really impressive number of yards. And they wouldn't have done it without guys like Ebron and even Droptimus Prime pulling a defender off them.

I think I remember all of one play last season where one of our receivers was running deep down field completely open. That was Jeremy Ross, and I was praying they wouldn't throw it his way on 3rd down because it was an auto-fail.

Don't remember if they did or not. Point is, just because he didn't put up the numbers, doesn't mean he didn't have an impact on guys like #81 and #15.

Every eligible receiver is going to be covered down field regardless of their skill level in 95% of the cases. Exception would be on a 3rd and super long and they are well short of the sticks, end of half situation, or blown coverage.

The issue is Ebron pulled no more coverage than Pettigrew would of.

If a NFL WR/TE is wide open you want to throw him the ball. If he was open and they didn't throw it it's a miss (unless it was a situation listed above). For example on the playoff pass interference throw:

Part of this is on Ebron, he needs to become more reliable. It appears his own QB has no faith in him, only explanation I can come up with for not throwing it to him when wide open. So if his own QB doesn't trust him, why would a defense fear him?

However to your point there were times Ebron did leave someone open, such as Tate, but we checked down to bush instead:

 

[inkfreq]

No where, did I defend Ebron. I'm as down on his rookie season as anyone here. I blame Stafford for a lot of that, since he doesn't go through his progressions passed two.. ever.

I'm simply saying that the statement that Ebron had no impact on Calvin or Tate may not be very accurate. Not many receiving duo's have put up over 1,000 yards each, and it's pretty clear Calvin would have been much higher even than that had he not missed three games to injury, and been a stupid decoy in another.

You have to figure for two guys to be as open as they were on the same team, other people were in fact pulling defenders away from them.

 

[mhughes0021]

Every eligible receiver is going to be covered down field regardless of their skill level in 95% of the cases. Exception would be on a 3rd and super long and they are well short of the sticks, end of half situation, or blown coverage.

The issue is Ebron pulled no more coverage than Pettigrew would of.

If a NFL WR/TE is wide open you want to throw him the ball. If he was open and they didn't throw it it's a miss (unless it was a situation listed above). For example on the playoff pass interference throw:

Part of this is on Ebron, he needs to become more reliable. It appears his own QB has no faith in him, only explanation I can come up with for not throwing it to him when wide open. So if his own QB doesn't trust him, why would a defense fear him?

However to your point there were times Ebron did leave someone open, such as Tate, but we checked down to bush instead:

Stafford...

I think it has less to do with trust and more to do with Stafford not being able to make a read.

 

[LKP]

There are progessions. There is a CB near Tate and Tate could have been the first progression and he moved to the next if not open earlier. Bush was the last. Bush had a chance in that play in space.

And the non PI missed call, Stafford made the right call. Higher %. The refs messed that up.

three plays is not enough to prove your theory.

 

[brewer229]

There are progessions. There is a CB near Tate and Tate could have been the first progression and he moved to the next if not open earlier. Bush was the last. Bush had a chance in that play in space.

And the non PI missed call, Stafford made the right call. Higher %. The refs messed that up.

three plays is not enough to prove your theory.

So trying to throw through the back of the defender to your blocking TE is a better read than throwing to your #1 and arguably best WR in the league that is wide open in the middle of the field? How is that higher percentage?

The easy throw to Calvin is better option. The touch throw over defender to Pettigrew is a better option. Throw to back of defender and hoping for a call is at best the #3 option.

The three plays were to illustrate three different scenarios.

 

[LKP]

The safety could have came up to make that play on Tate. And again could be past the progression.

Pettigrew was one on one and it should have been PI obviously. The right play was made.

Double coverage deeper or one on one TE vs LB. One on one is correct call.

 

[Mitchrapp]

No where, did I defend Ebron. I'm as down on his rookie season as anyone here. I blame Stafford for a lot of that, since he doesn't go through his progressions passed two.. ever.

I'm simply saying that the statement that Ebron had no impact on Calvin or Tate may not be very accurate. Not many receiving duo's have put up over 1,000 yards each, and it's pretty clear Calvin would have been much higher even than that had he not missed three games to injury, and been a stupid decoy in another.

You have to figure for two guys to be as open as they were on the same team, other people were in fact pulling defenders away from them.

I'm not sure I think it was because of Ebron. I could be the TE and Calvin puts up yards. As far as Tate, IMO Pettigrew has the same effect. Scenario, you have all 3 guys going out and you think DB's say lets cover the rookie TE? Sure someone is covering him, just like someone is covering Pettigrew or Ross. But no one picked Ebron over the other two.

 

[brewer229]

The safety could have came up to make that play on Tate. And again could be past the progression.

Pettigrew was one on one and it should have been PI obviously. The right play was made.

The safety was five yards deeper than Tate, but about 12 yards away turned the other way. Safety had no play on him.

If your theory is it's better to hope for a PI than throw to your best offensive player who is wide open, there is nothing I can do for you there. I would throw it to CJ and at a minimum get to the 30. Probably much further downfield.
Pettigrew wasn't a horrible read, he was open, but when you compound a piss poor throw with throwing to a blocking TE, it is a recipe for disaster.

 

[LKP]

The safety is not turned the other way. Where Stafford would have to throw to lead him, the safety could get there. And again progression to Tate had passed.

It was Pettigrew next and it was the right choice. You can't see the whole field at once. You go through progressions. At that point and time, Pettigrew was really the only choice.

And backshoulder is not only the safest for a catch, it also could draw PI. Which it did. The refs just messed up.

 

[brewer229]

The safety is not turned the other way. Where Stafford would have to throw to lead him, the safety could get there. And again progression to Tate had passed.

It was Pettigrew next and it was the right choice. You can't see the whole field at once. You go through progressions. At that point and time, Pettigrew was really the only choice.

And backshoulder is not only the safest for a catch, it also could draw PI. Which it did. The refs just messed up.

I think we are talking different plays to Tate. I'm saying this one where he throws to Bush. Tate was wide open. No one makes a play on him in this one.

Funny thing is, make these plays you beat Buffalo and don't have to play Dallas in the 1st round. You enjoy your bye week.

 

[LKP]

I think we are talking different plays to Tate. I'm saying this one where he throws to Bush. Tate was wide open. No one makes a play on him in this one.

Funny thing is, make these plays you beat Buffalo and don't have to play Dallas in the 1st round. You enjoy your bye week.

Packers still win North even if we beat Buffalo first of all. NFC conference record. And we missed 3 FGs and Carpenter made a miracle. Buffalo also had a top 5 defense.

We win North if we got to play Pats at Ford Field and Pack had to go to Foxboro. Also bullshit 11-5 doesn't win your division.

Secondly, you are ignoring progression. Tate may not have been open when it was Tate's turn in progression. Bush is the right call on the check down based on where he was in progression. Bush was in space.

 

[brewer229]

Packers still win North even if we beat Buffalo first of all. NFC conference record. And we missed 3 FGs and Carpenter made a miracle. Buffalo also had a top 5 defense.

We win North if we got to play Pats at Ford Field and Pack had to go to Foxboro. Also bullshit 11-5 doesn't win your division.

Secondly, you are ignoring progression. Tate may not have been open when it was Tate's turn in progression. Bush is the right call on the check down based on where he was in progression. Bush was in space.

Lions and Packers both finished the NFC with a 9-3 record.
Lions would probably lose out on Strength of Victory. However if you beat Buffalo, you are at the least the #5 seed and get to go to Carolina, which is an much easier game.

I'm not ignoring progression, however you are going on an assumption, The picture is showing a fact, he was wide open.

If he was going through progression and Tate was 1st read, once he got to Ebron he should of thought, wait the safety is coming down hard on him, perhaps my guy running the skinny post is wide open. He shouldn't have such tunnel vision, he should be able to see wide open guys. You are wrong.


Defend the Ebron wide open in the middle slide. Appears to be clean pocket, why did he not see anyone and eventually cover up and take a sack? Not doing his line any favors.

 

[LKP]

Lions and Packers both finished the NFC with a 9-3 record.
Lions would probably lose out on Strength of Victory. However if you beat Buffalo, you are at the least the #5 seed and get to go to Carolina, which is an much easier game.

I'm not ignoring progression, however you are going on an assumption, The picture is showing a fact, he was wide open.

If he was going through progression and Tate was 1st read, once he got to Ebron he should of thought, wait the safety is coming down hard on him, perhaps my guy running the skinny post is wide open. He shouldn't have such tunnel vision, he should be able to see wide open guys. You are wrong.


Defend the Ebron wide open in the middle slide. Appears to be clean pocket, why did he not see anyone and eventually cover up and take a sack? Not doing his line any favors.

If Tate was covered early, he is not going back to Tate. 3rd read to Bush (in space) was the right call.

Overall Stafford is good. He makes plays, he moves the ball and is a big reason we score any point almost.

A handful of plays won't sway anyone.

Chart all his throws.

It's a fact Packers win it still even if we beat Buffalo. And losing to Buffalo was not Stafford's fault, it was Henery's fault.