Offseason Deals and Rumors

[jdeb]

I think Max ends up a Mariner

 

[Rebbiv]

There is absolutely no way to make the call that a prospect is a future All-Star. You trade prospects for proven talent, all day and every day.

Price worked out. The pen did not.

That is your opinion.

And with that you will always trade Smoltz for Alexander. But that was one for one. In this case, DET traded 3 pieces for 1. And that one might be gone next year.

Now, I get the prospect being a prospect. Certainly when they are only 19. But Harper and Strasburg were 19 when they were highly touted.

Time will tell.

 

[dubbsco]

For every Harper and Strasburg, I can give you a Cam Maybin, Jacob Turner, and Ryan Perry.

Price did everything and more in the opportunity he was given during the post-season. The team just could not pick him up.

 

[kingofdetroit57]

The vast majority of prospects don't pan out. I'd trade a prospect(s) for a proven star nearly every time. You'll get burned every now and then doing this when the star declines and/or the prospects develop, but that's the gamble. For every Smoltz deal, you've probably got a dozen counter examples.

 

[tomdalton22]

At the time of the trade I thought it was worth the risk for this year. Now that they didn't get past the first round I would happily trade Price back for AJ, Smyly and the prospect.

 

[Sbee]

The vast majority of prospects don't pan out. I'd trade a prospect(s) for a proven star nearly every time. You'll get burned every now and then doing this when the star declines and/or the prospects develop, but that's the gamble. For every Smoltz deal, you've probably got a dozen counter examples.

player for player that makes sense, you also have to take payroll into consideration and the amount of years the player is signed for.

 

[Sbee]

A local Detroit sports anchorman for WDIV reported that there are rumors swirling that there was a "quiet anger" permeating the Tigers clubhouse after AJax was traded in that 3 way with the Mariners and Rays that netted Price.

he may have been a popular guy in the clubhouse but they need to realize that you have to give something up to get something. Even people on this board get that, we see less of the trade ideas like the ones in the past that always involved raburn and getting someone like King Felix in return

 

[Rebbiv]

The vast majority of prospects don't pan out. I'd trade a prospect(s) for a proven star nearly every time. You'll get burned every now and then doing this when the star declines and/or the prospects develop, but that's the gamble. For every Smoltz deal, you've probably got a dozen counter examples.

The younger a prospect or where he played in the minors impacts uncertainty. A 24-year old AAA prospect is more defined than a 18-year old Single A prospect.

Smoltz was barely over 20

How many other deals involved 1 for 1 and a prospect under 20?

Jeff Weaver + Cash = Carlos Pena, Jeremy Bonderman and Franklyn German and we had to wait for Bonderman's name because it hadn't been a year since he was drafted.


Willy Adames was 18 at the time of the trade. At the start of the season. he was DET's #3 prospect. Due to other trades made during the year and performance, he was probably DET's #1 prospect.

It wasn't Jackson, Smyly and just any old prospect for Price. At it wasn't 2-3 prospects for Price (Fister trade).


And there is the salary impacts and whether said player brings value. You cannot just keep trading prospects for ML talent. Eventually you will have a high payroll and no money to address weaknesses (bench, bull pen, etc). Oh wait...I guess you can just trade all your prospects.

 

[dubbsco]

When there is an opportunity to trade and get another lights-on starter, you take it. It's not like Ajax was tearing the cover off the ball. Price pitched a damn good playoff game, and the Tigers could not pick him up. They were also bracing IMO for Max being gone.

 

[Sbee]

When there is an opportunity to trade and get another lights-on starter, you take it. It's not like Ajax was tearing the cover off the ball. Price pitched a damn good playoff game, and the Tigers could not pick him up. They were also bracing IMO for Max being gone.

It makes sense to trade prospect for star players when the prospects ceiling is that star player. We traded Miller and Maybin for Cabrera, there was a slight chance that one of the two could be the player Cabby was in terms of WAR but you also have to understand the payroll impact. Almost all of these players that are traded provide some kind of payroll relief, either the player is signed to a longer term financial commitment or about to enter free agency (sometimes arbitration). there's always a lot to consider in these deals

 

[Rebbiv]

When there is an opportunity to trade and get another lights-on starter, you take it. It's not like Ajax was tearing the cover off the ball. Price pitched a damn good playoff game, and the Tigers could not pick him up. They were also bracing IMO for Max being gone.

You do realize it isn't about getting Price, but what was given up in the process, or not addressing positions of need, or creating more holes in the process, right?

Ajax was having an off year, even by his standards. Got it. But, we absolutely have no replacement for him. About the only near-term position prospect worth anything is being switched from being a stellar 2B to CF for this very reason.

Anyone who thinks Davis is the answer in CF is on drugs or qualifying for the short bus. We still have to address CF. And we truly don't know what we have in LF or RF.

And go back to the thread that was about the Price deal. I stated that Price effectively meant maybe 1 more win the rest of the season over Smyly, providing the same run support.

We traded Fister over Scherzer, even though Fister had one more cost controlled year with the premise to save money and get Smyly into the rotation.

We trade Smyly, who is cost controlled through 2018, as part of a package to get Price for 1 1/2 years. We still don't know if we can resign Price and what it would cost.

I will also add, that after the age of 30, it pretty much is rare for a starter to win/be Cy Young worthy. In fact, in recent history (last 20-30), if a started had 950 IP in a 4 year period, a lot showed injury or diminished skills (Jack McDowell, Justin Verlander, CC Sabathia, Tim Lincecum, etc) in the subsequent years. This is the current research I am doing. IMHO, Price is nearing the end of his peak performance, so why pay top dollar?

 

[tomdalton22]

The Tigers are in a very difficult position this off season. They are going to lose their best starting pitcher and very possibly losing their best hitter from 2014. If they keep the hitter his salary will go up. They need to get a starting RF, CF, 3 BP arms and possibly a starting pitcher. They may also need to get a full time catcher if Avila is forced to retire. The big problem is they really don't have any trade chips. They really don't have anyone on the big league level that would command multiple players and the farm system is bare. I see another roster similar to the one they had last year. Probably just good enough to compete for the central title but would have to catch fire to do any damage in the post season. I would love to just blow it up and start over but you really can't do that with the way this roster is constructed.

 

[byco42]

In the attempt to improve personnel, it seems to be getting steadily worse. I would not have traded Fister for any reason, let alone for scraps. That trade fostered the Price trade for valued prospects. And DD is a wizard at dealing players? Even Fielder for Kinsler, long-term, is a wash (financially) and the $6,000,000 that is being pissed into the wind could purchase a lot. Not knowing that Fielder was going to be damaged, I wanted the Tigers to help him get his head fixed, lose 50 pounds and start fresh in 2014. But I wanted Peralta and Benoit to stay, too.

 

[tomdalton22]

In the attempt to improve personnel, it seems to be getting steadily worse. I would not have traded Fister for any reason, let alone for scraps. That trade fostered the Price trade for valued prospects. And DD is a wizard at dealing players? Even Fielder for Kinsler, long-term, is a wash (financially) and the $6,000,000 that is being pissed into the wind could purchase a lot. Not knowing that Fielder was going to be damaged, I wanted the Tigers to help him get his head fixed, lose 50 pounds and start fresh in 2014. But I wanted Peralta and Benoit to stay, too.

I think JV sucking was the driving force behind the Price trade. If JV would have been typical JV (average from 2009-2013, 3.3 era, 1.15 WHIP, 200 innings, 200+K) they wouldn't have never traded for Price.

 

[dubbsco]

JV's best days are behind him. The velocity is way down, and that was his calling card as a pitcher. He just can't blow people away with smoke anymore. That contract is going to be an albatross in the following years.

 

[kingofdetroit57]

Didn't hear the comment directly, but radio guys were saying JV stated he will for sure be back at 99mph+ next year.

 

[byco42]

Didn't hear the comment directly, but radio guys were saying JV stated he will for sure be back at 99mph+ next year.

What's he going to do, take PEDs?

 

[Thumb]

What's he going to do, take PEDs?

Or maybe just allow his core muscle surgery to fully heal. You know, that's almost like PED's.

 

[tomdalton22]

Didn't hear the comment directly, but radio guys were saying JV stated he will for sure be back at 99mph+ next year.

If I remember correctly he wasn't at 99 last year prior to the core injury. I think that is just wishful thinking on his part.

 

[Thundercats]

If I remember correctly he wasn't at 99 last year prior to the core injury. I think that is just wishful thinking on his part.

He did reach the high 90's in 2013. I remember early in the season, he was throwing low 90's and everyone was freaking about about low velocity, and then he began throwing heat again. He also reached high 90s in the postseason. Im not sure I would blame his huge drop on surgery. Maybe there is a certain amount of preparation and conditioning that his arm goes through in an offseason, that he didn't get to do last year. I doubt he ever throws 99 again.. but 97 is reachable, considering he got as high as 96 this year toward the end.