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Hoops vs Wisconsin

EDIT: Dude, do you even ever watch people throw punches?

Because I?ve been a boxer all my life and I watch/throw punches every day (okay, three days a week now - I?m 61 years old).

Just before throwing, coach steps his left foot left to get into position to throw the overhand right. Even my wife thinks it?s ridiculous that someone thinks that not a punch.

If you think that isn?t a punch, you don?t know what a punch is.

Clear as day that it's not a punch. It looks more like he was trying to grab the guy and pull. Ended up being a slap.

https://twitter.com/DaveSaba/status/1495490089220292614

His hand is open the entire motion.
 
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Clear as day that it's not a punch. It looks more like he was trying to grab the guy and pull. Ended up being a slap.

https://twitter.com/DaveSaba/status/1495490089220292614

His hand is open the entire motion.

I don?t have a twitter account.

What?s clear as day is you saw something differently than pretty much everyone on earth saw it.

New York Post headline called it a ?slap (they?re saying he should be suspended for the rest of the season nevertheless),? everyone else talking about saw it as a punch.

It?s clear as day it was a punch. His fist is closed the entire motion, from start to finish when it ends up guarding his chin in defensive position (a boxer might relax their hand in that situation; that?s a different discussion).

You?re entitled to your opinion.
 
I don?t have a twitter account.

What?s clear as day is you saw something differently than pretty much everyone on earth saw it.

New York Post headline called it a ?slap (they?re saying he should be suspended for the rest of the season nevertheless),? everyone else talking about saw it as a punch.

It?s clear as day it was a punch. His fist is closed the entire motion, from start to finish when it ends up guarding his chin in defensive position (a boxer might relax their hand in that situation; that?s a different discussion).

You?re entitled to your opinion.

It's not an opinion. It's open handed.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/0KDnvIoRsKY
 
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does it really matter? Either way, he hit the other coach. Probably deserves to be suspended for the rest of the season. If I were UM, I would consider firing him.
 
does it really matter? Either way, he hit the other coach. Probably deserves to be suspended for the rest of the season. If I were UM, I would consider firing him.

Not arguing that. It was really, really bad. An idiotic move while caught up in emotions. Suspension is warranted, but I don't know about the rest of the season. Mark Few got three games for getting a shitfaced DUI (swerving all over), arguing with cops, and refusing to comply with most of their orders. That being said, Juwan needs to learn from this and never come close to it happening again. Suspended for 5 games (rest of regular season) seems about right.
 
It's not an opinion. It's open handed.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/0KDnvIoRsKY

Okay.

I guess you see everything in super slow motion and magnified x5 (give or take) for it to be ?clear as day? when you see it in real time.

What is also clear as day is that the fist is closed when the motion starts and it?s closed when the motion is completed.

It is not open the entire motion.
 
Wow, I hadn't seen that video. That looks really bad

Yep. He lost it when Krabenhoft pushed Faulds and Williams. I get being pissed that other coaches are shoving your guys, but you just can't react like this.
 
Okay.

I guess you see everything in super slow motion and magnified x5 (give or take) for it to be ?clear as day? when you see it in real time.

What is also clear as day is that the fist is closed when the motion starts and it?s closed when the motion is completed.

It is not open the entire motion.

Well pulling your arm back is not a punch. So that doesn't really matter. His hand opens as soon as the forward motion starts towards Krabbenhoft. Didn't need slow motion to see that.
 
Well pulling your arm back is not a punch. So that doesn't really matter. His hand opens as soon as the forward motion starts towards Krabbenhoft. Didn't need slow motion to see that.

Good for you if you?re able to see that at real time speed.

Although I?m not really sure I believe you.

The hand is not open the entire motion, although we?re quibbling over semantics; open hand strikes can be very damaging and everything about the blow except for the position of the hand at the point of impact is tantamount to a punch.

You?ve probably heard the saying in boxing ?move your head or somebody?s going to move it for you.?

In the magnified slow motion replay, we see the guy?s head definitely gets moved.

They are literally reporting on the event here on local KTLA channel 5 as I am making this post.

This is unfortunately a big deal, and not in a good way.
 
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As much as I hate it, you have to fire Howard. How can you keep a guy that blows his top and throws hands at another coach? And then not seeing that his own players are getting involved and throwing punches because his rage is out of control. Completely classless and setting the wrong example.

And for those of you saying "it wasn't a punch,' I promise you would call for his head if it was Izzo. Juwan needs to be fired or at the very least suspended for the season and sent to anger management. This isn't the 80s and 90s with Bob knight. He gotta go or changes need to be made.
 
Good for you if you?re able to see that at real time speed.

Although I?m not really sure I believe you.

The hand is not open the entire motion, although we?re quibbling over semantics; open hand strikes can be very damaging everything about the blow except for the position of the hand was tantamount to a punch.

You?ve probably heard the saying in boxing ?move your head or somebody?s going to move it for you.?

In the magnified slow motion replay, we see the guy?s head definitely gets moved.

They are literally reporting on the event here on local KTLA channel 5 as I am making this post.

This is unfortunately a big deal, and not in a good way.

Fine if you don't believe me. The first time I saw it after my friend texted me that Juwan threw a punch, I watched and said to my wife "oh he didn't throw a punch, he slapped the guy".

It's still bad, but punches and slaps are different things. I don't say I had some wine tonight after I drank beer just because they're both alcoholic beverages.
 
Fine if you don't believe me. The first time I saw it after my friend texted me that Juwan threw a punch, I watched and said to my wife "oh he didn't throw a punch, he slapped the guy".

It's still bad, but punches and slaps are different things. I don't say I had some wine tonight after I drank beer just because they're both alcoholic beverages.

Okay.

Maybe you?re a firefighter or a pilot or are in a profession that requires above average eyesight.

I don?t know that the position of Howard?s hand at the time of impact is going to be determinant upon his fate.

Also if you are a firefighter or a pilot, obviously don?t drink any alcoholic beverages before going on the job.

It doesn?t matter if it?s wine or beer, neither would be good.
 
Bacon's breakdown for those who care. Sorry about the formatting. Twitter copy and paste doesn't work well:

John U. Bacon
@Johnubacon
?
19m
Replying to
@Johnubacon
On Sunday a back-and-forth between Michigan basketball coach Juwan Howard and Wisconsin?s Greg Gard spilled over to both teams after the game ended. But it didn?t become national news until Howard recached out to slap the head of a Wisconsin assistant coach, (2/19)
John U. Bacon
@Johnubacon
?
19m
which naturally has eclipsed everything that occurred before and after. (3/19)
John U. Bacon
@Johnubacon
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19m
UM AD Warde Manuel released a strong, clearly worded statement, saying, in part, ?There is no excuse for any of our staff or student-athletes to get into a physical altercation with others regardless of instigating factors.? A very good start. (4/19)
John U. Bacon
@Johnubacon
?
19m
There is already plenty of blame to go around, and there will be more once investigations by the Big Ten, both schools, and the media determine which coaches and players said and did what to whom. Right now those answers are still murky, but so far have revealed no heroes. (5/19)
John U. Bacon
@Johnubacon
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19m
Howard has otherwise done an exceptional job leading his players on and off the court. The players I know say they don?t merely like and respect Howard. They love him ? and for the right reasons, in my view. (6/19)

John U. Bacon
@Johnubacon
?
20m
I do not believe he will be fired over this, and shouldn?t be. It might seem like a distinction without a difference, but he didn't punch a player. He slapped a Wisconsin assistant coach who was shoving his players. But Howard is certain to be suspended, and should be. (7/19)
John U. Bacon
@Johnubacon
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20m
Though this is surely the worst incident of Howard?s coaching career, this is not his first post-game conflict ? a pattern that must end, immediately. (8/19)
John U. Bacon
@Johnubacon
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20m
But if I were the AD (and it should be noted here that, in fact, I am not), I would not wait for the Big Ten to determine Howard?s suspension. A few leadership principles apply here, which I?m drawing from my book, Let Them Lead. (9/19)
John U. Bacon
@Johnubacon
?
19m
First, instead of having a hundred rules, keep them few, but enforce them. As the Celtics? legendary Red Auerbach said, ?Don?t do anything to embarrass yourself, or the Celtics.? You don?t need much else ? and that simple edict applies here. (10/19)
John U. Bacon
@Johnubacon
?
19m
Second, when someone does violate that rule, it?s better to punish your own people than to wait for someone else to do it. When I coached the Ann Arbor Huron high school hockey team I wrote about in Let Them Lead, I told my players, (11/19)
John U. Bacon
@Johnubacon
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19m
?If an alcohol issue ends up on my desk, that means you can?t handle it, and you won?t like my solution. I will not give up on you, but I guarantee my solution will be harsher than the school?s.? (12/19)
John U. Bacon
@Johnubacon
?
19m
Yes, Wisconsin?s head coach and his assistants added fuel to the fire ? and probably more than initially believed, particularly when one of their assistant pushed two of Howard?s players, which seems to be what finally set Howard off. (13/19)
John U. Bacon
@Johnubacon
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20m
Protecting your players is the right impulse, but Howard had the wrong reaction. But from where the Michigan athletic director sits, I don?t think the Badgers? actions impact his choices very much. (14/19)
John U. Bacon
@Johnubacon
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20m
When one of my players had a brief exchange with a mouthy opponent in the hand-shaking line, and I called him on it, he protested that the other guy started it. True enough, I said, ?But he doesn?t play for Huron. You do. And we have higher standards.? (15/19)
John U. Bacon
@Johnubacon
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20m
For all these reasons, if I were Michigan?s AD I would suspend Howard for the rest of the regular season ? five games ? to send a clear message that UM doesn?t tolerate such behavior, no matter how good the coach nor how complicated the circumstances. (16/19)
John U. Bacon
@Johnubacon
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20m
I would also underscore that nothing like this can ever happen again ? period ? and work with Howard to make sure it doesn?t. (17/19)
John U. Bacon
@Johnubacon
?
19m
Doing so would return Michigan to the high road, keep the Big Ten largely out of it, and leave the ball in Wisconsin?s court to clean up their own house ? but that?s their issue, not Michigan?s. (18/19)
John U. Bacon
@Johnubacon
?
20m
I often quote Don Canham?s great advice: Never turn a one-day story into a two-day story. That?s not an option here, as this story will run at least a week. But how much longer it runs will depend more on Michigan?s AD and head coach than anyone else. (19/19)
 
I feel like the reactions to this would be a good study for gulo's "unconscious bias" thread.

I hope Juwan Howard gets disciplined, and he should, but I don't think he should be fired.

It doesn't sit right with me that we fire our coach because he overreacted to the dickheads on WI's staff.

Our own football coach is good at fucking with other coaches... and has a storied history in that regard. Maybe he needs to take Juwan aside and give him some pointers on how to react better?
 
I feel like the reactions to this would be a good study for gulo's "unconscious bias" thread.

I hope Juwan Howard gets disciplined, and he should, but I don't think he should be fired.

It doesn't sit right with me that we fire our coach because he overreacted to the dickheads on WI's staff.

Our own football coach is good at fucking with other coaches... and has a storied history in that regard. Maybe he needs to take Juwan aside and give him some pointers on how to react better?

Harbaugh once patted Jim Schwartz's on the back too hard. That REALLY pissed Gym Shorts off.

That would have been a good route for Howard to have taken.

And no, Howard shouldn't be fired. He should miss the rest of the season, the Big 10 tourney and the NIT though.
 
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I feel like the reactions to this would be a good study for gulo's "unconscious bias" thread.

I hope Juwan Howard gets disciplined, and he should, but I don't think he should be fired.

It doesn't sit right with me that we fire our coach because he overreacted to the dickheads on WI's staff.

Our own football coach is good at fucking with other coaches... and has a storied history in that regard. Maybe he needs to take Juwan aside and give him some pointers on how to react better?

Let?s see? When he was at Stanford he went for two late in the game one Stanford had a significant lead over USC, which really pissed off Pete Carroll.

After San Francisco victory over the Lions, he tried to hug the Lions head coach or something, I think it might?ve been Jim Schwartz at the time, which pissed him off.

Within the last year or something something that really pissed off Day at Ohio State, but I forget what it was.

What else is there?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WeS3VeluAmg
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=w3CE8CUTW_0
 
One thing on the timeout issue, I've seen this with Howard before, where they're getting blown out and play hard to the final buzzer. He's done that @ MSU a few times where he runs a full court press on our bench players and walk ons to try to turn an 18pt game into a 12 one in the last two minutes, it happens a lot. Now I don't have a problem with that, if they're going to play that way, you can't get pissy because the other team called a timeout to avoid a turnover. I think Howard thinks that one team has to take its foot off of the gas pedal and run the clock out while the team that's losing doesn't.
 
I don?t have a twitter account.

What?s clear as day is you saw something differently than pretty much everyone on earth saw it.

New York Post headline called it a ?slap (they?re saying he should be suspended for the rest of the season nevertheless),? everyone else talking about saw it as a punch.

It?s clear as day it was a punch. His fist is closed the entire motion, from start to finish when it ends up guarding his chin in defensive position (a boxer might relax their hand in that situation; that?s a different discussion).

You?re entitled to your opinion.

Stop smoking that Cali weed. You don't need a twitter account to watch the video.
 
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