Fielder for Kinsler trade

[tomdalton22]

Can you provide ONE direct quote from a Tiger player or Tiger official citing that Fielder was not a good teammate? One, just one. Not what a reporter is saying or interrupting, but what someone with firsthand knowledge.

FYI....Ian Kinsler is said to have a bad attitude!

http://www.lonestarball.com/2013/5/17/4340668/texas-rangers-buster-olney

"There?s a lot of people who see Kinsler as one of the cornerstones of the team, and there?s a lot of people who see him as somebody who pops up too much and has a bad attitude."

So are we taking on another team's bad egg? Who knows 100% for sure. I just know from an offensive standpoint this weakens the team. There is no real salary relief until 2018 at the soonest.
And read all my posts. I am not upset at getting rid of Fielder. I am upset with the garbage we got in return. A bag of balls would have been better.

$8M in 2014

 

[pr0tege]

Well Miggy for one seems to be pretty broken up by the move according to his recent twitter postings.

 

[Mitchrapp]

Well Miggy for one seems to be pretty broken up by the move according to his recent twitter postings.

Of course they were buds. Better sign to an extension before he changes his mind..

 

[Rebbiv]

So. You need to look at more angles that "last 3 road" stats that some of you use. Bring his family to Michigan, still eating home cook meals, etc. and suddenly his road numbers translate to outside Comerica.

Home is home..who says his home stats in Texas won't be his home stats in Comerica.

And Fielder's away numbers go down quite a bit as well. I guess Texas is going to get Prince and his .797 OPS.

:nod:

Sorry Mitch, but players do not change their road splits. Home splits, yes. But not the road. Can there be an exception? Yes, but we are talking maybe less than 1%.

And Fielder's last 3 years Aways splits puts him in the top 10 in baseball over the last 3 years. Moving to Texas will not change that, just enhance his home stats.

 

[grandy]

Future obligations graphs/charts from MLBTradeRumors/Cot's Baseball Contracts


http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2013/11/the-broader-market-impact-of-the-fielder-kinsler-trade.html

 

[Rebbiv]

$8M in 2014

Please Tom stay up on what is going on.

Kinsler is guaranteed to make $87 Mil over the next 4 years if his 2018 option is not picked up. Fielder was due to make $96 Mil. That is a savings of only $9 Mil over the next 4 years, or $2.25 Mil a year.

The real savings comes starting in 2018, whether Kinsler's option is picked or not. Until then, you have to factor the $30 Mil we are giving Texas.

 

[Mitchrapp]

Sorry Mitch, but players do not change their road splits. Home splits, yes. But not the road. Can there be an exception? Yes, but we are talking maybe less than 1%.

And Fielder's last 3 years Aways splits puts him in the top 10 in baseball over the last 3 years. Moving to Texas will not change that, just enhance his home stats.

That's not what I meant though. He hit fine in Texas so he hits fine in Detroit. His shitty road splits stay shitty..

Not everyone hits better in Texas.

But at least based on 2013, as far as positions go Kinsler had a better year. Disagree if you want for for a 1B Fielder was awful.

 

[Rebbiv]

Well Miggy for one seems to be pretty broken up by the move according to his recent twitter postings.

Which goes against the notion Fielder was a cancer in the clubhouse.

 

[Mitchrapp]

Which goes against the notion Fielder was a cancer in the clubhouse.

Because of one player? That means as little as some news guy..

 

[grandy]

Please Tom stay up on what is going on.

Kinsler is guaranteed to make $87 Mil over the next 4 years if his 2018 option is not picked up. Fielder was due to make $96 Mil. That is a savings of only $9 Mil over the next 4 years, or $2.25 Mil a year.

The real savings comes starting in 2018, whether Kinsler's option is picked or not. Until then, you have to factor the $30 Mil we are giving Texas.

Where did you get $87 million from?

https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=tEZvMIXrj8vgGMsajr8pR0g&output=html (via Cot's Baseball Contracts)

I see

2014: $16M
2015: $16M
2016: $14M + $6M to Texas ($20M)
2017: $11M + $6M to Texas ($17M)

4-Year Total: $57M to Kinsler + $12M to Texas ($69M)

 

[tomdalton22]

Please Tom stay up on what is going on.

Kinsler is guaranteed to make $87 Mil over the next 4 years if his 2018 option is not picked up. Fielder was due to make $96 Mil. That is a savings of only $9 Mil over the next 4 years, or $2.25 Mil a year.

The real savings comes starting in 2018, whether Kinsler's option is picked or not. Until then, you have to factor the $30 Mil we are giving Texas.

Do you know how it works towards the luxury tax threshold? I read that they are going to be paying part of Prince's salary towards the back end of his contract. I would assume that is when the payment towards Prince's contract counts against the Tigers....maybe I read it wrong.

 

[Rebbiv]

That's not what I meant though. He hit fine in Texas so he hits fine in Detroit. His shitty road splits stay shitty..

Not everyone hits better in Texas.

But at least based on 2013, as far as positions go Kinsler had a better year. Disagree if you want for for a 1B Fielder was awful.

Yes, Kinsler could hit fine in Comerica. Great. So did Infante. We have trouble scoring runs on the road and he just adds to that inability.


Players have off years and good years. Name me one player that repeated his exact stats from one year to the next. Fielder is going through a divorce and a down year. When the news broke that Avasail was sleeping with his wife, most had compassion for him. Now, after a bad post season and small sample rate, we want to kick him under the bus.

I make no bones that I did not like Fielder's contract. I also do not like Verlander's. But I generally do not like ANY contract over 6 years, regardless of who the player is.

I do not change my opinion of a player based on one good year (2012 Austin Jackson, 2006 Brandon Inge, etc) or one bad season (2013 Prince Fielder, 2010 Derek Jeter, etc). Just like one good month or bad month in a season does not change a player. Otherwise Chris Shelton would still be playing 1B for Detroit.

 

[Thumb]

I hope this thread gets bumped in 6 months. When everyone is bitching about Kinsler.

And as far as everyone talking about Castellanos, he hasn't even proven he can make the team yet, let alone get a starting job, and I sure as hell don't want him starting in LF....we need a power bat there. Putting the cart before the horse again.


As far as Kinsler vs. Fielder. Even on a down year Fielder was significantly better offensively than Kinsler. Now what happens if Prince bounces back and Kinsler goes from a hitters park to a neutral park? His home stats will go down, his road stats will likely be the same...so overall just taking him out of Arlington partially neutered whatever offense abilities he has.

If we would have gotten a throw in player or 2 from Texas I might not hate this trade so much, but it fuckin blows. We went from overpaying Prince, to overpaying Kinsler for less production and phantom savings everyone thinks we have that will allow us to sign Max to an extension which would be a bad idea anyways.

 

[pr0tege]

Nick Castellanos: It'd be 'awesome' to go back to 3B for Detroit Tigers after trade.

http://www.freep.com/article/201311...etroit-tigers-prince-fielder-nick-castellanos

 

[tomdalton22]

I hope this thread gets bumped in 6 months. When everyone is bitching about Kinsler.

And as far as everyone talking about Castellanos, he hasn't even proven he can make the team yet, let alone get a starting job, and I sure as hell don't want him starting in LF....we need a power bat there. Putting the cart before the horse again.


As far as Kinsler vs. Fielder. Even on a down year Fielder was significantly better offensively than Kinsler. Now what happens if Prince bounces back and Kinsler goes from a hitters park to a neutral park? His home stats will go down, his road stats will likely be the same...so overall just taking him out of Arlington partially neutered whatever offense abilities he has.

If we would have gotten a throw in player or 2 from Texas I might not hate this trade so much, but it fuckin blows. We went from overpaying Prince, to overpaying Kinsler for less production and phantom savings everyone thinks we have that will allow us to sign Max to an extension which would be a bad idea anyways.

People on this board are going to bitch no matter what. Let's wait and see what else the Tigers do...this year and beyond. Who knows...maybe they did this so they can sign Miggy...not Max.

 

[Mitchrapp]

Yes, Kinsler could hit fine in Comerica. Great. So did Infante. We have trouble scoring runs on the road and he just adds to that inability.


Players have off years and good years. Name me one player that repeated his exact stats from one year to the next. Fielder is going through a divorce and a down year. When the news broke that Avasail was sleeping with his wife, most had compassion for him. Now, after a bad post season and small sample rate, we want to kick him under the bus.

I make no bones that I did not like Fielder's contract. I also do not like Verlander's. But I generally do not like ANY contract over 6 years, regardless of who the player is.

I do not change my opinion of a player based on one good year (2012 Austin Jackson, 2006 Brandon Inge, etc) or one bad season (2013 Prince Fielder, 2010 Derek Jeter, etc). Just like one good month or bad month in a season does not change a player. Otherwise Chris Shelton would still be playing 1B for Detroit.

This isn't even about Infante. Maybe Infante is better but we got rid of a 1B who actually is more like a DH. If done right, we can go with Miggy at 1B, down the road at DH and get a new 3B. Maybe we don't but it does open up that option.

And in a few years you might be happy that we have no Kinsler or Prince and maybe less of a payroll.

Maybe we don't save money in certain years but in the end it's what, close to 75m?

Since you talk money and road numbers, lets talk playoff numbers. Kinsler, good, Fielder - very bad.

 

[Mitchrapp]

Infact I think it needs it's own post:

Since you talk money and road numbers, lets talk playoff numbers. Kinsler, good, Fielder - very bad.

 

[kingofdetroit57]

This isn't even about Infante. Maybe Infante is better but we got rid of a 1B who actually is more like a DH. If done right, we can go with Miggy at 1B, down the road at DH and get a new 3B. Maybe we don't but it does open up that option.

And in a few years you might be happy that we have no Kinsler or Prince and maybe less of a payroll.

Maybe we don't save money in certain years but in the end it's what, close to 75m?

Since you talk money and road numbers, lets talk playoff numbers. Kinsler, good, Fielder - very bad.

Let's not forget that DD said Infante wasn't coming back anyhow, so we would have probably been looking at Hernan Perez starting for us instead of Kinsler. Plus, if we want to continue down the Infante path, what were we gonna pay him to stay? Fielder's salary + resigning Infante would have been a HUGE money difference.

 

[Rebbiv]

Where did you get $87 million from?

https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=tEZvMIXrj8vgGMsajr8pR0g&output=html (via Cot's Baseball Contracts)

I see

2014: $16M
2015: $16M
2016: $14M + $6M to Texas ($20M)
2017: $11M + $6M to Texas ($17M)

4-Year Total: $69M

I stand corrected, it should be $92 MIL. Math error. His 2018 option is worth $5 Mil if it is bought out. So he is guaranteed $62 Mil over the next 4 years.

Now, I don't care when DET pays the $30 MIL, it still is part of this deal. It now is credited towards Kinsler, who could not be on the team after 4 years. Hence why it is $92 MIL over the next 4 years.

The Tigers owed Prince 7 years @ $168 million, but now owe Kinsler and the Rangers a total of $92-97 million over 4 or 5 years.

That is a savings of $71 - $76 million, depending on the option over the next 7 years. Yes. But is that really a savings? Fielder cost $24 per year. Kinsler is either going to cost $19.4 Mil per year, or $23 Mil per year based on this deal. Again, during the time Kinsler is on the team, that $30 Mil has to be accounted for, even if the payout is after he left the team.

 

[tigermud]

Wow, surprised they actually did it. biggest thing for me was the lousy post season numbers with Prince, we need guys that can get it done in the post season. Prince doesn't get it done in the post season so it's fine with me.

Now go get Choo!!!