Hock to the Vikings

[grandy]

TE's aren't going to get as much as WR even if similar production.

Based on the reactions so far, it seems that the Lions traded a HOF TE for peanuts.

Maybe I?m too far in the opposite direction, I?m just glad they managed to get anything for him.

 

[Mitchrapp]

I think this trade was more about evaluating Justin Fields than getting Claypool. The current Bears front office didn't draft Fields. They know he has nothing to work with. I think they got him another WR so they can evaluate if he is the guy they want to move forward with.

Should have traded for an offensive lineman. Leads the league in sacks this season. Now sure how much a #2 WR will help.

 

[Mitchrapp]

Based on the reactions so far, it seems that the Lions traded a HOF TE for peanuts.

Maybe I?m too far in the opposite direction, I?m just glad they managed to get anything for him.

I agree. I'm happy about it just don't draft a 1st round TE in '23.

 

[503]

I think this trade was more about evaluating Justin Fields than getting Claypool. The current Bears front office didn't draft Fields. They know he has nothing to work with. I think they got him another WR so they can evaluate if he is the guy they want to move forward with.

Or they knew if they don?t get him some help, he won?t want to re-sign future deals. When you think you have something, better surround him w some help.

 

[detrisin]

Maybe Holmes understands the lack of overall value in a first round TE as a game changer. Hopefully Detroit is out of that market forever.
Kelce -- 3rd round
Kittle -- 5th round
Andrews -- 3rd round
Knox -- 3rd round

 

[mhughes0021]

Maybe im not understanding. But from what i read we get a 2nd rd pick and moved up from the 4th to the 3rd in 2024. We give up a 4th next year.

Imo thats a great trade for Hock who will be on the last year of his deal next year and making $9mil.

We dont have this GREAT run game like we thought we'd have...and hes never produced enough to be considered "worth" a top 10 pick.

They were FINALLY starting to use him correctly down field. instead of on 1 yard out routes. But too little to late.

Cya.

 

[Mitchrapp]

AP source: 49ers trade RB Jeff Wilson Jr. to Dolphins. 5th round pick. Solid when he has chance.

 

[LKP]

Maybe im not understanding. But from what i read we get a 2nd rd pick and moved up from the 4th to the 3rd in 2024. We give up a 4th next year.

Imo thats a great trade for Hock who will be on the last year of his deal next year and making $9mil.

We dont have this GREAT run game like we thought we'd have...and hes never produced enough to be considered "worth" a top 10 pick.

They were FINALLY starting to use him correctly down field. instead of on 1 yard out routes. But too little to late.

Cya.

Hock was first on team in yards, YPC, TDs and 2nd in targets. 13th out of 69 TEs. We'll see if we miss him with Mitchell/Wright/Zystra. We did pretty well last year without him actually though at end of 2021 when he was hurt.

The trade value was low but it was it is at this point

We got probably a low 2nd but gave up our high 4th in 2023. Good but not great.

Now for 2024 we get a 3rd but give up our 4th unless the Vikings win a playoff game then we only give up our 5th in 2024. So I guess root for the Vikings in the playoffs one round at least so we only give up the 5th round pick in 2024 and not the 4th round pick.

We also get cap space out of this. Freed up 2 million now (for rollover) and 10 million next year. And don't have to worry about overpaying him in 2023 or 2024.

Now hopefully Holmes can nail bothl these 1sts, both the 2nds and the high 3rd this year. Big draft for him and the future of the Lions on top of building from Sewell, St Brown, McNeil, Jameson (eventually), Hutch and Paschal, Joseph and the diamond in the rough Rodriguez. Levi and Barnes seem like lost causes already but you never know with 2 more cheap years. Decker, Ragnow, Jackson still good players but they will need to figure out how to pay Jonah Jackson. Swift final year in 2023 on a cheap deal but need another explosive back. Good FA market for RBs in 2023 offseason.

And Lions will have anywhere from 24 to 68 million to spend in free agency depending on who they cut/trade out of (Brockers, Goff, Vaitai and Romeo Okwara)

2023 is the culmination of the rebuild but probably don't win until 2024 due to rookie QB in 2023 (which will be the excuse for the 4th year of Campbell/Holmes)

 

[Mitchrapp]

And Lions will have anywhere from 24 to 68 million to spend in free agency depending on who they cut/trade out of (Brockers, Goff, Vaitai and Romeo Okwara)

I think it's more about will anyone come than available cap space.

 

[LKP]

I think it's more about will anyone come than available cap space.

Paying extra is how we get them to come so that is why we need to get the cap space. Otherwise, its first round bust gambles (Charles Harris, Mike Hughes), re-signs Walker/Okwara and injury gambles (DJ Chark, Elliot), backups that want playing time (Board) and players that played for you (Brockers and Anzalone both fails)

But with extra early draft picks now too, we get extra hopefully productive forced labor for 4 years to turn it around.

 

[Mitchrapp]

Paying extra is how we get them to come so that is why we need to get the cap space. Otherwise, its first round bust gambles (Charles Harris, Mike Hughes), re-signs Walker/Okwara and injury gambles (DJ Chark, Elliot), backups that want playing time (Board) and players that played for you (Brockers and Anzalone both fails)

But with extra early draft picks now too, we get extra hopefully productive forced labor for 4 years to turn it around.

When do we ever get good players to sign here as FA's and actually perform here? I don't remember. Must be a long time.

4 more years? Its always 4 more years. It's now decades, like 6.

 

[detroit1811]

This trade clearly means the Lions were not going to sign him long term. Hockenson is not going to make a difference this year to this team. That means we traded one year of production from Hockenson for these picks.

We can say the 2023 4th and 2024 4th wash out with the 3rd rounder. That is pretty fair, even if we assume the Lions picks in both 2023 and 2024 will be in the top half of round 4 and the Vikings 3rd in 2024 will be in the bottom half.

That essentially means we traded Hock for what amounts to a late 2nd rounder. The conditional pick we MAY have gotten would have been the end of round 3. This pick is a full round better, plus we receive it two years earlier than if we had waited. Plus we are saving an additional 10mil in cap space in 2023.

Lets use a hypothetical. It is the 2024 off-season and Hock is a pending FA. He is actually willing to re-sign here. The cap has been exploded as the money from the TV deals have set in and Hockenson is due to reset the TE market. He wants at least 16mil per year (Waller is the highest at 17mil AAV so 16mil may not be enough to get it done).

Do you re-sign Hockenson to a 4 year 64mil with 30mil in guarantees? If you are on the fence or are an outright no, why not move him now to capitalize on his value while he still has another year left on his contract?

You make this trade in 2023 and you are likely getting a 4th rounder.

 

[LKP]

When do we ever get good players to sign here as FA's and actually perform here? I don't remember. Must be a long time.

4 more years? Its always 4 more years. It's now decades, like 6.

Glover Quinn and Rick Wagner and some short term rentals that got hurt and then weren't worth the backloaded deals (KVB, Tulloch, Reggie Bush)

Patricia era didn't work too well in FA. Players did come here though then but all failed. Holmes era hasn't been very active with some cap constraints and 2021 a full tear down. The re-sign injuries to Okwara and Walker have been very unfortunate. Chark injury risk not panning out for the 1 year rental. It's up to the last two drafts and these next two and get a hit or two in FA in 2023 or at least an upgrade to starter quality (probably not pro bowl or elite)

 

[detroit1811]

When do we ever get good players to sign here as FA's and actually perform here? I don't remember. Must be a long time.

4 more years? Its always 4 more years. It's now decades, like 6.

Marvin Jones, Glover Quinn, Golden Tate, Stephen Tulloch, and to a lesser extent, Burleson have all signed as FA's and more than proved their value here. There are also some flyer type deals/claims we have made like Romeo Okwara and Charles Harris who have performed beyond expectations.

You also have plenty of failures like Wagner, Flowers, and Coleman just to name a few.

 

[detroit1811]

Glover Quinn and Rick Wagner and some short term rentals that got hurt and then weren't worth the backloaded deals (KVB, Tulloch, Reggie Bush)

Patricia era didn't work too well in FA. Players did come here though then but all failed. Holmes era hasn't been very active with some cap constraints and 2021 a full tear down. The re-sign injuries to Okwara and Walker have been very unfortunate. Chark injury risk not panning out for the 1 year rental. It's up to the last two drafts and these next two and get a hit or two in FA in 2023 or at least an upgrade to starter quality (probably not pro bowl or elite)

Not sure I agree on Wagner. The guy was made the highest paid RT in the NFL and performed like a replacement level starter when he wasn't hurt.

 

[Mitchrapp]

Marvin Jones, Glover Quinn, Golden Tate, Stephen Tulloch, and to a lesser extent, Burleson have all signed as FA's and more than proved their value here. There are also some flyer type deals/claims we have made like Romeo Okwara and Charles Harris who have performed beyond expectations.

You also have plenty of failures like Wagner, Flowers, and Coleman just to name a few.

Its a good thing we have those players. We need stars not solid because solid end up traded or leave because we always stink.

 

[503]

If I had it my way. I?d offer our 1st this year and the second we just got for Kyler Murray. I?d even throw in another 2nd/3rd if it would get the deal done.

 

[Mitchrapp]

If I had it my way. I?d offer our 1st this year and the second we just got for Kyler Murray. I?d even throw in another 2nd/3rd if it would get the deal done.

Kyler Murry 2nd?

Rereading it helped. I understand now..

 

[mhughes0021]

If I had it my way. I?d offer our 1st this year and the second we just got for Kyler Murray. I?d even throw in another 2nd/3rd if it would get the deal done.

no way in hell. Hooker will be better than Murray and you can save 3 picks lol.

 

[503]

no way in hell. Hooker will be better than Murray and you can save 3 picks lol.

Give me the proven guy who?s seen the NFL field over the unproven all day. I?m tired of rebuilding, I want to win asap.