Other Games Week 10

[bphillips4gg]

I'm not making any assumptions that Michigan will beat osu. I actually expect them to win every game until then, OSU to win out and The Game to be for the division and get our asses kicked by OSU. Again. And listen to their fans do their dumbass chant in our stadium. Again. And everyone will go from being cautiously optimistic to wanting to see Jim fired. Again.

I'm fully aware of the fact that a road game in Happy Valley isn't a given, but I expect a win just for the simple fact that the scenario I outlined above is the ultimate kick in the dick, which is what I've come to expect from Michigan.

On another note, the coaches really did get it right and ranked the better team higher this week.

 

[Michchamp]

Wisconsin is ranked... we beat them on the road, soundly.

 

[byco42]

From a recent SI article-op-ed, in the wake of the sinking of the Michigan season after it collapsed against MSU:

After today's loss to Michigan State, Jim Harbaugh is now 20-21 against all Power 5 opponents with at least a .500 record. That mark is unacceptable.

Harbaugh is also now 0-9 against top 15 teams on the road. That mark is unacceptable.

He's obviously 0-6 against Ohio State and has never played for a Big Ten title. Those marks are also unacceptable.​

I think that the author is indicating that Harbaugh?s results are ?unacceptable.?

 

[Michchamp]

From a recent SI article-op-ed, in the wake of the sinking of the Michigan season after it collapsed against MSU:

After today's loss to Michigan State, Jim Harbaugh is now 20-21 against all Power 5 opponents with at least a .500 record. That mark is unacceptable.

Harbaugh is also now 0-9 against top 15 teams on the road. That mark is unacceptable.

He's obviously 0-6 against Ohio State and has never played for a Big Ten title. Those marks are also unacceptable.​

I think that the author is indicating that Harbaugh?s results are ?unacceptable.?

He's 57-23 (39-17) 71.3% (69.6%). Not bad. Much better than his two predecessors.

He righted the ship almost immediately, but struggled in Year 3, and has made more lousy staff decisions than good ones.

By comparison, Lloyd Carr was 122-40 (81-23) - 75.3% (77.8%). Lloyd Carr was a great coach.

I think Harbaugh is coaching in a tougher era, and a much less level playing field. Plus he didn't have the continuity of taking over a well-oiled machine. And the chaos of the RichRod - Hoke years gave our rivals -particularly MSU - a leg up over us in terms of recruiting.

I wouldn't say Harbaugh has earned the right to retire on his terms absolutely, but only as long as we don't endure back-to-back lousy seasons, one of which is a losing season.

As much as I hate Ohio State and want to beat them, I also don't blame Harbaugh for his record against them. It was nearly tied at halftime in his 1st year, and you have that DJ Durkin situation, which was shady. Then in 2016, we all saw how our team had to fight uphill against a game not being called fairly, and still went to 2OT. I don't understand the Michigans fans who bring these up or acknowledge them on one hand, and then demand Harbaugh be held accountable for them.

2018-2019 were bad losses. I still don't understand those.

in 2020, I still maintain we would have won.

 

[byco42]

^^^^ Big-Ten Teams that have beaten OSU since JH took over in 2015: Purdue, Iowa, MSU, PSU.^^^^

 

[zyxt9]

I really wish UM would push their theoretical advantage in the NIL, being a stud at UM will pay far greater than any other team, IF they were to really push that angle.

We are talking about being able to reward players through NIL to the degree they can land 5+ of the Top 50 players every year, probably even 10+ if they were to really put in the effort and set the system up right.

At that point they are in the playoffs every year, winning NCs at an Alabama type pace.

Now it is legal and acceptable, I do not get why they do not exploit the fuck out of it.

Is there even a cap on what players can make through NIL? Marketing people LOVE to get UM players on their stuff because they know it sells.

 

[Michchamp]

I really wish UM would push their theoretical advantage in the NIL, being a stud at UM will pay far greater than any other team, IF they were to really push that angle.

We are talking about being able to reward players through NIL to the degree they can land 5+ of the Top 50 players every year, probably even 10+ if they were to really put in the effort and set the system up right.

At that point they are in the playoffs every year, winning NCs at an Alabama type pace.

Now it is legal and acceptable, I do not get why they do not exploit the fuck out of it.

Is there even a cap on what players can make through NIL? Marketing people LOVE to get UM players on their stuff because they know it sells.

does it? we have a huge fanbase, and it's national, but that also means it's not really strong in any one region (except the state of Michigan, which is divided with MSU).

I also don't know ANY fellow alums that are small or mid-size business owners who would be able to make that sort of decision to back Michigan football financially like that. Everyone I know from college is a doctor, lawyer, director or VP for a large multinational... i.e. not sitting on a bunch of discretionary cash they can use to bundle recruits to the program, or pay existing players.

We need more sleazy alums who will go on to run used car dealerships, or mortgage lenders

 

[bphillips4gg]

I agree with you Champ in that there have been several instances where Jim's teams have had bad breaks. I think that if they had won that 2016 game they likely would be at least .500 against OSU. I will also acknowledge that in at least half of the OSU games that Jim has been at the helm it's been with an injured QB or a backup. You have the game where Kinnell drops a pick-6 that puts Michigan up 21-0 and JT Barrett runs for an OSU TD 1 or 2 plays later. 2016 was remembered for the spot, I remember our receivers being tackled at the line of scrimmage drawing no flags and OSU converting a 3rd and forever on a PI when the ball was 30 feet above the intended receiver's head.

All that said, the underlying issues with his teams are a bigger concern to me than the record. The "QB Guru" hasn't had an above-average QB since he's been here. His QBs tend to regress from year to year as well although it has to be acknowledged that isn't the case this year. There's the issue with bad staff decisions and the overall inability to make adjustments in-game that lead to some of the more frustrating losses. They also have a horrible record in November.

There's nothing that he's done to inspire confidence that the status quo is going to change. And Jim will be the first to tell you that the expectation at Michigan is to compete for national championships, not 10 win seasons. I would like to see what happens with Jim next year. The entire team should be back with the exception of Hutchinson. The staff seems to be doing a great job of getting the most out of the players they have. I actually have some faith that they will learn from their mistakes, which I couldn't say about the previous staff. I just wish they didn't wait until after the MSU game to say "we can't get caught in subbing like that". But at least they said it, which is a refreshing change.

 

[rumseyhouse77]

^^^^ Big-Ten Teams that have beaten OSU since JH took over in 2015: Purdue, Iowa, MSU, PSU.^^^^

How many times have these teams beaten OSU over the last 10 years? MSU only beat them once. Purdue doesn't play OSU every year, but beat them once in the last 10 years. PSU beat them once. Iowa, like Purdue, doesn't play OSU every year, but the last 10 years Iowa beat OSU one. OSU has been the best team in the B1G for the last 10 years or more. The last time Michigan beat them was in 2011. OSU looks very beatable this year. I am glad we get them in the Big House this year. This is a winnable game if the refs call it fair.

 

[Michchamp]

I think Harbaugh should get credit for turning unheralded transfer Jake Rudock into an NFL draftee.

And after that, in 2016, Speight was pretty good. He made some mistakes, but no one prior to 2017 could reasonable expect he (and the rest of the team) would flame out the way they did that season.

Harbaugh deserves credit for bouncing back and winning 10 straight in 2018, and keeping the team together after what could have been a disastrous 2019 campaign after the blowout loss to Wisconsin and the tough loss @Penn St.

You can't only pin losses on the coach, then dismiss the wins with that "any Michigan coach could win those" mentality. RichRod proved that wrong. Hoke underscored it.

EDIT: this last part isn't directed to anyone in particular, I'm just saying as all...

 

[Michchamp]

I agree with you Champ in that there have been several instances where Jim's teams have had bad breaks. ...

I mean... the muffed punt against MSU! possibly the single worst bad break I've ever seen. A game where we lead the entire time, blown on a single play...

Then in 2019 vs. Penn State, Ronnie Bell drops the tying TD. Hit him right in the hands.

Didn't we have one of our better defenders ejected vs. MSU after an iffy roughing the QB call? I thought that was in 2017, but I couldn't find it in the notes.

Where Harbaugh has gone very wrong is in hiring assistants. He's done a generally lousy job there... DJ Durkin, Tim Drevno, Pep Hamilton, Josh Gattis... all bums. and Durkin got a player killed at Maryland. Needless to say... none of them were Michigan staff material.

I guess add Don Brown to that list. he seemed like a home run hire for a while though, but that went badly. And whatever happened to drive Greg Mattison to OSU... how does that happen?

 

[byco42]

How many times have these teams beaten OSU over the last 10 years? MSU only beat them once. Purdue doesn't play OSU every year, but beat them once in the last 10 years. PSU beat them once. Iowa, like Purdue, doesn't play OSU every year, but the last 10 years Iowa beat OSU one. OSU has been the best team in the B1G for the last 10 years or more. The last time Michigan beat them was in 2011. OSU looks very beatable this year. I am glad we get them in the Big House this year. This is a winnable game if the refs call it fair.

I?d have thought that JH would have beaten OSU several times by now, bad spot and pick-sixes not withstanding. The track meets they lost were galling.

 

[Spartanmack]

I mean... the muffed punt against MSU! possibly the single worst bad break I've ever seen. A game where we lead the entire time, blown on a single play...

this is not correct - uofm never trailed until the end but the game was tied for 19 minutes and was a 1 score game for all but 29 seconds. uofm trailed in virtually every statistic - 156 less yards on offense (4 more rushing, 160 fewer passing), half as many first down, more turnovers, roughly equal 3rd down conversions, 2 more punts, oh and 1 more blown punt.

 

[Michchamp]

this is not correct - uofm never trailed until the end but the game was tied for 19 minutes and was a 1 score game for all but 29 seconds. uofm had 4 more rushing yards but trailed in virtually every other statistic - half as many first down, 160 fewer passing yards, more turnovers, roughly equal 3rd down conversions, 2 more punts, oh and 1 more blown punt.

You're arguing with my comment about leading "the entire time" by bringing up meaningless stats and quibbling with whether "the entire time" covers our first three and out... well congrats! technically you're correct.

Here's the espn report. So We took a 7-0 lead on our 2nd possession of the game, and didn't relinquish the lead until the muffed punt return TD with 0:00 left on the clock.

 

[Michchamp]

I?d have thought that JH would have beaten OSU several times by now, bad spot and pick-sixes not withstanding.

me too. but what are we going to do about it? fire him and bring in a magical home run hire that will not only field competitive Big Ten teams, but also beat the best and dirtiest program in the conference several times in the next 6 years,
something no other program has done?

The track meets they lost were galling.

Yeah. I still don't know what to think about those. they were just so out of character for our defense each year, and for the rivalry... unprecedented. what can you make of them? Either Ohio State was really that much better than us, or some other monkey business is going on. Or things just got out of hand.

But I mean that 2018 OSU team (Meyer's last season) got pasted 49-20 by Purdue, and needed OT to beat Maryland 52-51.

in 2019 ... well... they pretty much destroyed everyone til they ran into a program that paid for more talent than they did in the playoff semifinal. their closest win was against Penn St 28-17). What can you do?

 

[bphillips4gg]

The ridiculous ejection you're thinking of was the same 2015 MSU game. Joe Bolden was pushed into the MSU QB by a MSU OL and subsequently ejected by the amazing B1G officials.

 

[bphillips4gg]

This thread has completely fallen apart. I was doing just fine trolling Sparty fans with ridiculous shit and people had to go and start having real conversations. I'm almost positive the one loser punched a hole in his mom's basement wall.

 

[gotime909]

He's 57-23 (39-17) 71.3% (69.6%). Not bad. Much better than his two predecessors.

He righted the ship almost immediately, but struggled in Year 3, and has made more lousy staff decisions than good ones.

By comparison, Lloyd Carr was 122-40 (81-23) - 75.3% (77.8%). Lloyd Carr was a great coach.

I think Harbaugh is coaching in a tougher era, and a much less level playing field. Plus he didn't have the continuity of taking over a well-oiled machine. And the chaos of the RichRod - Hoke years gave our rivals -particularly MSU - a leg up over us in terms of recruiting.

I wouldn't say Harbaugh has earned the right to retire on his terms absolutely, but only as long as we don't endure back-to-back lousy seasons, one of which is a losing season.

As much as I hate Ohio State and want to beat them, I also don't blame Harbaugh for his record against them. It was nearly tied at halftime in his 1st year, and you have that DJ Durkin situation, which was shady. Then in 2016, we all saw how our team had to fight uphill against a game not being called fairly, and still went to 2OT. I don't understand the Michigans fans who bring these up or acknowledge them on one hand, and then demand Harbaugh be held accountable for them.

2018-2019 were bad losses. I still don't understand those.

in 2020, I still maintain we would have won.

Fit enough excuses in 1 post?

 

[gotime909]

This thread has completely fallen apart. I was doing just fine trolling Sparty fans with ridiculous shit and people had to go and start having real conversations. I'm almost positive the one loser punched a hole in his mom's basement wall.

Trolling the fan base of the team that donkey punched yours?

 

[zyxt9]

does it? we have a huge fanbase, and it's national, but that also means it's not really strong in any one region (except the state of Michigan, which is divided with MSU).

I also don't know ANY fellow alums that are small or mid-size business owners who would be able to make that sort of decision to back Michigan football financially like that. Everyone I know from college is a doctor, lawyer, director or VP for a large multinational... i.e. not sitting on a bunch of discretionary cash they can use to bundle recruits to the program, or pay existing players.

We need more sleazy alums who will go on to run used car dealerships, or mortgage lenders

There are plenty of alums who could do it. UM produces its fair share of business owners. And with the NIL, none need to be sleazy.

And the national fan base is why the Marketing is more attractive. Their national following is strong enough that Shoelace was on the cover of NCAA Football 14 after UM went 7-6 (3-5 in Big 10) in 2013, not to mention he was not the best player in college or pros. So, why was he selected? The power and influence of the Michigan brand in the world of Marketing.

There is zero reason UM should not be the Leaders and Best in the NIL field of play which directly equates to the football field. No school should be capable of offering more money through NIL than UM.